Hi, welcome to today's webinar, Builder's Risk, Water Risks, and Mitigation, hosted by Inland Marine Underwriters Association. I'm Eileen Monreale, Education Training Specialist at IMUA. Thanks for joining us today. In the attendee control panel, you can download a copy of the presentation in PDF format under handouts. This is also where you will find the question box where you can share your questions with our presenters. We look forward to addressing them at the end of the presentation, but you can enter them at any time. To encourage your questions, IMUA will award a $25 Amazon e-gift card to the most slash best engaged attendee as a token of our appreciation. So please do ask questions. Our instructors look forward to them, and we'll announce the winner at the end of today's webinar. Also, please be mindful of the IAA policy statement, reminding all from entering into any discussions on matters of victim rates or conditions of individual insurance contracts. If you experience any audio challenges, there's an option to listen through your phone. You can find the phone number and access code under the audio section on the toolbar. And without further delay, I am honored to introduce today's presenters. Ray Stutzke, a professional engineer, holds the Associate in Risk Management, ARM designation. He serves as Account Engineer for Chubb's Inland Marine Unit, part of Chubb's Property and Specialty Lines Division. In this role, he is responsible for engineering, evaluations, and construction risk management services for builders' risk and engineered risk accounts. Chris Till is the Director of Construction Technology at BRCAI, where he leads West Coast initiatives to mitigate water-related risks through IoT solutions. With over 25 years of experience driving innovation and delivering impactful products across various segments of the construction industry, Chris is passionate about using technology to solve construction challenges and enhance operational efficiency. In addition to their excellent experience and backgrounds, both Chris and Ray serve on the IMU-A Loss Control Claims Committee. So let's have a virtual round of applause for Chris and Ray. Thanks for joining us, guys. Welcome, everyone. I just want to say thank you, everyone that's out in the audience attending. Hopefully, you will gain some insight into water risk management and mitigation. So without that, we'll start the presentation. First one is just a disclaimer, saying that the opinions and positions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of Chubb. So in general, the topic kind of broadly, obviously, water damage is one of the most frequent and costly loss types we have in construction. The main thing is having a formal water damage mitigation plan. I always say if you fail to plan, you plan to fail. And in this particular exposure, that's very true. And one of the things that we will talk about is kind of the prevention, but also the importance of such proactive things such as IOT, leak detection technology, which Chris will go into a little more detail a little bit later. So generally, I have a little introduction, brick eye overview, and Chris will talk about some key industry challenges and then how that has affected the builder's risk insurance issues. And then I'll talk about some property loss exposures and the planning and mitigation elements. And then I'll go back to Chris to explain the more technical side of the IOT things. And then we'll have some time at the end to discuss any questions and also just, you know, to kind of do an overview of things. I guess I have to do it every time. Chris, I think if you may. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thanks, Ray. I just wanted to start by saying thank you to IMUA for giving us the opportunity to contribute to this. I just wanted to give a quick little overview. Everybody obviously knows who Ray is. He's been on a lot of speaking engagements, quite active in IMUA. Brick Eye has been a part of IMUA now for two years. Just a quick background of what we are and who we are. We've been around in the construction environment about since 2014. Company is based in Toronto, Canada. We are a construction IOT solutions provider. We specialize in leak detection and we also specialize in concrete monitoring. We rebranded the company about five years ago, formerly called AOMS Technologies. A little rebranding exercise to go through that. Very well received. I no longer have to be told my company is OMS and Brick Eye has a better ring to it. Our value is really about helping protect project margins by reducing rework and delays, by mitigating insurance claims and costs associated with that, enhancing quality and productivity and enabling risk reporting and analytics. We get into a couple of different sectors. One is the multi-residential and institutional and then we also get into the infrastructure side of things and we have a lot of great partners or what we consider partnerships with very reputable companies in the industry. To kind of start things off here, we just wanted to get a little bit of engagement on which of the following has been the primary source of your claims on your builder's risk projects? Water damage or fire or theft and vandalism? I believe the poll is now open. If you guys want to just give that a quick little share here. All right, perfect results. I expect you guys can probably see this, but 74% voted as water damage, 18% fire and 9% theft and vandalism. I think this is appropriate. We're on the right page here for going through with water damage. I think at a high level, some of the key industry challenges affecting claims can be attributed to the following three categories. One is really the evolving risk factors that include things like skilled worker shortages. They're making errors, defects. There's a lot of common risk with the skilled worker shortage. Nat cat exposure is for water damage and for fire is on the rise, obviously. Accelerated timeframes in the construction schedule itself. These are usually driven by project cost and delivery pressures. We also have productivity pressures that are in line. They are contributing to, right now, some of those relate to over 500,000 US construction labor for shortage employees in the industry. We're seeing about 1.9 million US construction workers leaving their jobs for other industries. In general, some of these other productivity pressures equate to 11% of construction projects. 11% of construction projects are actually completed on schedule. There's a few industry challenges as well as escalating costs that we're seeing. Some of the high-level ones that we notice are about $2 million in estimated for monthly financing costs on high-rise construction projects, a huge amount there with increased in borrowing. We also see rework as 7% to 11% of construction costs. With that, it's all attributed to builders' risk insurance premiums growing significantly. Over the last 10 years, there's been about a 10X growth in water loss deductibles. The last is for escalating costs is really about 9%. Only 9% of construction projects are completed on budget. All of these key construction industry challenges are contributing to some of the risks and some of the claims that we're seeing out there. Specifically with water and to start dialing into water a little bit, some of the quick stats that we're seeing in water is that water is obviously, as you guys know by your 74% of people voting, that water is one of the most frequent claims that we're seeing in construction. Up to 70% of builders' risk claims are coming from water damage. You guys are right on line there with your poll. Typical water deductibles are hitting $250,000 for an initial loss, $500,000 for subsequent losses. In certain markets and certain projects, they're actually exceeding or hitting $1M water loss deductibles. Obviously, there's a lot of pressures and some of the reasons for that is really the high impact of water incidents occurring as the project goes up. On these vertical high-rise constructions, what we're seeing is anything above the fifth or sixth floor, property damage is typically starting at $1M. The fill-out and repair for that floor is usually a month in delay. You slap on the $80,000 per day for financing on a typical high-rise and you can understand how we're getting so out of control and how water losses can become a really costly and major setback to any project. We're going to start and Ray is going to kick us off on how to mitigate some water risks. Go ahead, Ray. Thank you, Chris. As Chris said, my focus for the next number of slides will be more on the project risk management side of things, looking at the planning and mitigation tactics that could possibly be utilized. First and foremost, this is basic risk management 101, I guess, project team that's proactive in managing their subcontractors and also in property preservation, meaning protecting what's there. Pre-construction planning, if you can't, obviously the best thing would be to eliminate it, but obviously it can't always be done, so trying to schedule the project to avoid or minimize the loss exposure and then that's where the last thing is, the mitigation and implementing a plan to control those loss exposures during construction if you can't eliminate them. It's really basic risk management philosophy, applying it to the water mitigation process. I went backwards. Moving forward, so the old water, water everywhere, that's an old saying, but there's a lot of places that water can impact a building or construction project, both internally and externally, weather, as active wet systems on site, faulty workmanship, just lack of quality control, those kind of things. Typically, when you have more water sources, like a residential, habitational type occupancy, there's a lot more sources, every sink, every toilet, every washing machine, all those have individual sources that can possibly leak. The best way to manage it is through a formal and comprehensive plan that addresses all of the potential exposures that may occur throughout the life cycle of the project, and it's going to constantly change, so the plan has to kind of be a living kind of thing. I have another quick poll question here from, what is the key element that provides you confidence in managing water exposures on a project? Contractor's reputation, contractor developed site-specific water mitigation plan, their size and experience, or the project type and size? Take a few minutes, pop in your answers. Well, you listened to what I said on the last slide, so that's very good, thank you. But they're all kind of somewhat important, but obviously the specific water mitigation plan is the main element, but the reputation, project size also does have some impact. So obviously construction is a dynamic environment and that kind of leads to a lot of the issues that develop from a construction complexity standpoint, things like shop drawings and fabrication delays, delivery problems, field installation problems, all those kind of things can exasperate any type of water exposure, whether it be the building envelope doesn't get completed in time, the building systems aren't built within their allotted time. Then you also have, you know, buildings these days are much more complex, there's a lot more building materials that are much higher exposed to water damage, and the integration and testing with all of the different building systems that contain water and all of the multiple contractors that are working on those throughout the project lifecycle. So that's why a plan is very important. From a scheduling standpoint, obviously it'd be best to not have water in the building, but things that are important are like weather reports in temporary weather protection, having a severe weather plan, you know, when the lines are charged, if it's in a freezing environment, obviously that has to be protected from freezing. There's a lot more weather sensitive materials within a building, and high exposure activities like when you start to do finishes, making sure that there are, the building envelope is pretty tight, and then the interior sources, and that's where the subcontract coordination, so once the various trades start to build out the building and get the water in the building, you know, managing that is important, and this is from a schedule standpoint. This is just a photo of basically the high-rise, I call it the high-rise sequence, as a multi-story building is constructed, the superstructure goes up, then the exterior envelope and all of the interior fit-out follows along. And that, you'll have terms where they say, you know, temporary roofs every 10 floors or whatever, and in reality, a temporary roof is not really anything more than sealing a vertical penetration. It's not like they go in there and put a roof over that 10th floor. So it is a mitigation method, and it's temporary, as noted, and subject to, I guess, violation or, you know, breakdown from follow-on trades, because that temporary roof on the 10th floor is only good as the next trade that comes up and puts a hole through it that doesn't, and that is not sealing it properly. So it's something that is just part of the construction process of a high-rise building. It'd be great if they build the whole building, enclose it, and then start to do it, but that's just not how it's done. So from a property loss standpoint, sources, generally try to break them into three main areas. You have your external sources, as we talked earlier. Basically, you know, that's rain and or surface water through building openings. That could be the building envelope, temporary openings, temporary roofs, as I said. It could be site drainage, adjacent utilities, those kind of things where water can enter the building from external sources. Internal source, that's all your domestic water, fire water, chill water, all the various temporary construction water, and then also condensation and moisture that can develop from various sources. And then construction source, which the condensation and moisture is generally construction source, but it could be due to temperature variations, those kind of things. But you know, stored materials, stuff that might be delivered wet. One of the most common things in frame residential is gypcrete floors. They put them in for sound attenuation. That can cause some problems. Incomplete or improper piping connections, equipment installations. When the piping connections fail, that is a catastrophic type failure. A lot more than used to be with all the various types of compression fittings and other things that are now common in the building construction world. So from an external source, from a planning standpoint, again, these that I'm talking about, these are the kind of elements when you get a water damage mitigation plan or a moisture mitigation plan that may be included in a submission or from a contractor. These are the kind of things that you want to see included in those plans. So a pre-construction meeting, you know, all the time with subcontractors, manufacturers, design, it'd be great if you can get everything onto the design as, you know, these prevention and mitigation measures. But typically it's more after that point. And then maintaining that sequencing and scheduling so that you minimize the amount of time that there is water exposures. Renovation projects, kind of their own little separate thing. A lot of time the exterior envelope may be totally changed or it may not be changed at all. So there may be already some places where the building is leaking. It's good to identify those up front. Mock-up of the exterior, it's pretty common on projects, but that does help to look at where those challenges will be between different materials, different envelope systems that can help to avoid the external source. Complete reviews of documents to make sure that, you know, what's designed or specified. It may be a higher exposure type of building element that will require maybe some additional temporary protection or accelerating that to get it installed so that it doesn't cause a problem later on. And that's where you might have a building envelope consultant. Good proactive contractors are doing it, especially on buildings that have become a lot more geometrically complex or with numerous varied, you know, types of exterior envelope systems and where they meet and, you know, where they overlap and how those design details and the compatibility works together is an important consideration. This is an example of an exterior envelope with a glass curtain wall. And that, you know, how those – if you miss a piece of that, it's hard to put good temporary protection in there. So this is where the planning is important. And then from a construction standpoint, you know, things such simple as, you know, sloping the grades around the perimeter, making sure that if you have waterproofing and those kind of things, it gets installed, gets verified from a QCQA standpoint and backfilled and sealed so that it won't cause any issues down the road. As I mentioned earlier about the temporary roof is those sealing of those vertical penetrations. And then the edge of floor details and shaft openings, stairwells, those kind of things are really important areas because from a vertical migration standpoint, that's the perfect conduit to transfer the water from floor to floor and to exasperate those as Chris mentioned earlier. Once you get above those five, six levels, you know, it can have some significant impacts throughout the building. Getting the roof drains and other drains throughout the project installed and verified that they're competent as soon as possible. And then having to maintain those throughout construction as well as where they may discharge to. We had projects in the past where they had everything connected, all those, you know, their interior, their roof drains, piping and everything. But then where it discharged, there was a blockage. So everything backed up and flooded the whole building. So it's again, that's that management controls that are necessary. Flashing and caulking details, that's important. I don't know how many times I've seen where, you know, the roof was 90 percent installed, but you know, the flashing wasn't done, the wind comes along and pulls that back and ends up as a source for water intrusion. And that's where, you know, roofing and waterproofing system tests has to be verified. Other things have had a situation where they do like a flood test is what it's called. A lot of times now it's there is a resistance test can be done where they don't actually flood it. But a common test for a roof will be they'll put a couple inches of water and let it sit there. That's fine. Had a situation where a person started to put the water on the roof and then didn't follow up and then ran all night and flooded the building. So again, management controls. After rain, snow events, temporary drainage, roof drains, all those things need to be checked to make sure that, again, they're competent and not compromised in any way. Temporary protection, if needed, it'd be best if it's not needed. But obviously, that's not the case in construction. But door, window openings, balconies, decks, those kind of things, areas of the roof that might be incomplete. Any ventilation and those type of piping openings that go through the roof need to be confirmed and managed throughout the term. Same thing with any temporary vapor or weather barriers that are out there, they need to be maintained. And a lot of times they can be significant. It's an example of kind of a temporary protection, not the situation you really want to have. In this case, it was primarily winter weather driven. But there have been projects where this has been the case and it's not a good situation. So again, from a construction standpoint, one of the biggest things, and it's done a lot anymore years ago. It seems like I've been talking about water damage for a long time, but I think I have. So mold-resistant wallboard is a basic thing that can be done because your shafts, stairwells, those kind of things, that's always installed early because it needs to allow the construction to progress. Optimizing mold-resistant wallboard, the nominal cost at the time of installation is low and a lot of good proactive contractors are doing that. Obviously the scheduling of interior finish after the building envelope, but once again, that's not an option. That's where a detailed weather plan and protection needs to be done. You saw the other slide there, plastic sheets, tarps, those kind of things. A lot of times they may be used inside to cover materials, but that has to be managed as well because that can trap moisture inside what they're trying to protect. Another example of temporary protection prior to the building envelope being completed. And again, this stuff is subject to wind and other elements which can compromise it and it's a large maintenance thing. So from a cost standpoint, contractors a lot of times do it, but not necessarily maintain it to the level that should be done. So now switching kind of gears, we talked about that exterior envelope and those kind of things. Now looking at the internal sources from a planning standpoint, peer reviews of mechanical systems, making sure that, and again, this kind of drives, this is where if you can get the building owner or operator involved early on, because water damage during construction is an issue, but it doesn't go away during occupancy. And typically projects that have a lot of water damage issues during construction have water damage issues post-construction. So having a plan for isolation of valves, the type of piping and fittings that are done and leak control, those are important. If you can, and Chris will talk about it later, leak and flow detection, monitoring, alarming, all those kind of things, get those installed as soon as possible whenever there's water within the building. Things a lot of times, a lot of electrical switchgear, electrical panels and electrical equipment may be installed early from an access standpoint, delivery, because you want to get it inside the building. That may require some, a little more, I would say, not elaborate, but a little more competent temporary protection so that the moisture and those kind of things don't impact those temporary, the critical systems. Emergency water response plan, that should be part of the overall water mitigation plan. But if there is a leak, there's a lot of things that can be done to mitigate it if it's planned for. Just to look kind of above-the-ceiling look of a typical building construction process with the copper, black iron, various piping and ventilation systems. So there's a lot of sources and a lot of potential, and it requires a strong management control. From a construction standpoint, this is where I think really, of all the things that are important, this is where the rubber meets the road, as they say, where the wet system testing, QC, QA programs, and not only post-installation, but prior to activation, have had projects where they did the system testing, everything came up good, QC, QA, everything was good. It was all verified. And then that was done probably a week before or two days before they were going to actually activate the system. So everybody was like, okay, we're good. But in that interim period, someone came in and removed a section of sprinkler piping or whatever it was, but didn't tell anybody because the contractor that was installing some follow-on said, well, that pipe's in my way, I got to move it, but didn't tell anybody. So those kind of things. So prior to activation, kind of do that last post-activation check. That's something that should be part of that water mitigation planning process. Again, having the protocols for all that testing, the subcontractors engaged, and have them notify project management when they're charging these systems, have leak watches, and thoroughly document that the system integrity was there. That's the main thing. Simple things, posting site plans, placards, those kind of things of where the isolation valves and pumps and those kind of things are located, how to turn it off. Obviously, if there's a fire, any kind of life safety type issues, you're not going to shut down a fire protection system. But if you have where you can valve off a section or a floor where the leak is occurring, that's obviously, and if it's not a fire protection system, that's the key. But knowing where it's at, not saying, how do I shut this off? It's better to know that prior to charging the system. Things such as simple as tagging of valves, and that would tie back to that notification, having emergency contact information, instructions, how to shut it down, what section of the building that that valve may control, and again, this is maps, diagrams, those kind of things posted throughout the building, part of the plan, and it's built into the sequence of the work. Last resort is spill kits, because obviously the sooner you can get stuff cleaned up, the better the outcome. Hoses, pumps, mops, all those kind of things that might limit the damage. So we have another poll question now. So what type of project represents the most significant exposure to water damage? We have habitational low-rise, institutional, habitational high-rise, commercial, or health care. So take a few minutes, and please vote. Most people said habitational high-rise, and that's probably true, but health care is a pretty significant exposure as well, because of the fact that it's most of the time is a high-rise as well, and it also generates a lot more exposure from a damage potential with all the casework and all the various systems that are in a hospital. So habitational high-rise is the correct one, but just actually they all are, so just one is worse than the other. One of the things, typical installation of like a modular system, but as you can see with these piping systems, part of it is the drain waste vent, but also the copper with compression fittings, when those fail, that's more of a catastrophic type failure than just a leak. So these are some construction-specific mitigation things that should be included as part of that water management plan. And this is kind of the, over time, this has evolved back, you know, if a fitting is sweated, a copper fitting is sweated, or a black iron pipe is welded, you know, if those start to leak, typically they do not fail, they leak, and it generates a relatively small amount of water that will probably be identified at some point, but it's not, it may not happen immediately. With compression fittings, if they're not installed properly, they can fail catastrophically like that, and this is where, like, controlled inspection by the installing contract, I've seen a lot of different ways, you know, the plumbers will do it, they'll, after they do every fitting, you know, every compression fitting, they will put a mark or something on it to say that it's been done, and, you know, again, that's where the project manager type person has to document that, you know, they've done that, QCQA is verified, and that the integrity of those compression fittings is good. The modular installations, that's actually kind of a little bit better, because it can be done in the fabricator with a more controlled QCQA, but once again, it still has to be tested and verified once it's installed in the building and integrated with the various other building systems and the piping, so, so some project-specific loss exposures, these are types of projects and kind of the, where I've seen in my experience where there are issues. These transit type projects, a lot of times you have electrical buildings, signal enclosures, that's kind of where a lot of times the water intrusion can happen, wastewater, water treatment plant type projects, pump rooms, blower buildings, electrical equipment rooms, data centers, obviously the whole places is an issue, but, you know, limiting the sources to certain corridors and those kind of things is important, and that can all be done through the planning process. Pipeline projects, amount of trench exposed, the pipe openings and ends of the pipe, insulated pipe is always an exposure. Civil projects, typically the, you know, excavation, grading, and drainage stages, and then on the high-rise project, you have that vertical migration of water, which, you know, is just a, is the biggest exposure for water damage. And then you always have beyond the site. Had projects where there was, you know, whatever, a couple thousand feet of conduit that was electrical conduit, manholes, and it fed into a building, and that conduit went to a manhole that was in a flooded, flood-exposed area, so that manhole flooded the conduit, the electrical conduit that fed the building provided a perfect conduit to bring that flood water into a building that was a couple thousand feet away. So just, it can come from all different places, and that's why the project management and that water mitigation plan is so important. So general mitigation concepts, just, you know, pre-qualifying contractors, make sure they're, have adequate experience, that they have a water mitigation mindset. Have a 24-hour emergency restoration company pre-plan, coordinate, make sure that, you know, who to call, so you're not trying to figure out who to call. Have the drying equipment on-site if you can, and if not, have it, same kind of thing with that restoration company, have the ability to get that equipment in as soon as possible. Providing procedures to report leaks of water, any, so that they're immediately communicated is important. Ventilation, and I said earlier, you know, the gypcrete floors, any other porous materials, make sure that the ventilation and the moisture levels are maintained, and the, if there's any moisture-generating equipment that's vented outdoors, simple things, just at the end of the day, make sure the windows and doors are closed, and water sources, if they're not needed, are turned off, so. Inspecting materials upon delivery, and making sure that where they're stored are in decently dry conditions and within the manufacturer's spec, you know, not having stuff on-site is better than having stuff stored temporarily, and the big thing, and Chris is going to kind of go into that, is having flow detection, fire, domestic water, and detecting unusual flows during non-working hours, and having the ability to notify management and shut it down, so. Three, you know, as this kind of summary from a planning standpoint, as I said earlier, construction is dynamic, but it really starts with the quality and the comprehensiveness of the overall plan, and that is the contractor-developed, site-specific water mitigation plan, and, you know, getting back to that basic, you know, risk management philosophy, it'd be better to eliminate the water losses, and if you can't, you know, like, eliminate the exposures to water loss, and if not, then you have to have the means and methods to control that during construction, so, in my mind, these are what's needed from a water mitigation plan, identification that, in fact, there is a leak, notifying management that it's happening, mitigation, which is what Chris is going to kind of focus on, is that it can be shut off as soon as possible, whether that be manually or through some IOT-type system, and then a response, so that if there is leak, that it can be cleaned up and mitigated as soon as possible, so scope and key site management contacts, looking at your internal and external water damage sources, pre-exposure planning for those, making sure that you have really good quality control, quality assurance for mechanical and plumbing systems, building envelope, and that timeline of when the building will be weather-tight is adhered to. One of the biggest things I see on construction projects, and it drives me nuts all the time, is temporary water service. It's really common in building construction projects, where they'll, as they're building the building, they need water. That's one of the basic things that is needed in construction, but temporary water service is kind of an afterthought. Formalizing that is something that I constantly press with clients and stuff to make it a more, I would say, comprehensive, but a better system than just a temporary, because that may be there for 6, 12, 18 months sometimes. And then, as I said, Chris will talk about it now, monitoring the building systems with some type of IOT-type thing and having those leak response. So, key thing, as I said earlier, of an IOT system is the capability to identify water leaks, notify the management, and stop the flow of water. But the big thing is that's only a part of this overall monitoring and mitigation. It's a very key part, but it is only a part. So, Chris, take it away. Yeah, thanks. Thanks, Ray. So, my goal here is just to expand on the construction IOT technology. And it is important to recognize that what we're doing here is we're providing IOT-enabled sensors and devices and connectivity, linking everything up to a software platform where it can run. But we're in a construction environment, and therefore, there's some specific needs that also need to be addressed and understood. And one is the reality around the ruggedized hardware that is needed for these construction environments. Sensors usually have to be moved. They have to be in a format or presented in a way where they can be moved easily. So, they're not in the way all the time. So, there are certain requirements around the construction environment for the actual equipment that's being used. On the connectivity side, it is important that when you're using IOT technology, one of the really important things is Wi-Fi doesn't work very well. It doesn't work across the whole construction project. So, now you're using long-range radio frequencies. And you need reliability because this is driving all the connectivity for all the sensors in the platform. So, there needs to be considerations like battery backup and power considerations and hardware and equipment for preventative measures to protect everybody. And then, on the software itself, you really need a software that has the ability to manage rules and be able to put things like valves on schedule and provide alerts. And as Ray touched on, remotely control water through the app. So, you'd be able to turn it on or off. And then, wherever possible, it needs to have in there where automations are built in and need some flexibility around that. What ultimately you're trying to do through an IOT water risk mitigation service is loss prevention, which is essentially reducing incident frequency. Loss reduction, which is reducing the severity of an incident. And then, you need the platform to also, at the end of the day, to look back and gain some insight on the risk for future projects. This is how, you know, this is actually a chart provided by Aeon is the source. I don't think we've got the source on there. So, I mentioned it. So, that's good. But what this demonstrates here is it's not really rocket science. It's that IOT discovery is really mitigating the delta of loss from human discovery. So, you know, sensors placed in a specific area that are looking for something are obviously going to find something. And it is the easiest way to prevent or discover loss events sooner to mitigate the severity of damage, rework, delays, and claims. And, you know, these are being delivered through threshold-driven alerts. So, alerting the project team that something's not right. And wherever possible, building in these automations where, if the parameters are correct, that we can safely shut the water off to prevent a massive water incident. Most of the platforms out there are operating with, you know, with you need the ability to basically have a dashboard that can be controlled and understood. You need apps. The most important thing from what I see is the ability to alert people in real time. And then, obviously, there's also some reports and stuff like that that make it more efficient for communicating for future projects and kind of just getting that the data needed to make better decisions in the future. With IOT, like, there's two distinct drivers, I'd say, in water damage. And Ray kind of touched on it. We might just say it a little bit differently here. But one is water escape. So, basically, water that is coming out of pipes that is going to cause damage. And, you know, there's endless amounts of reasons why a pipe could, you know, could leak water, water could be left on, you know, over-pressurized, something blows up, tap is left on. There's a bunch of different reasons why water can escape a pipe. But the reality is that it is one of the highest risks during construction. And, you know, as Ray also mentioned, the temp runs become a big portion of it. The testing and commissioning is kind of a different phase. And then into, you know, TCO or occupancy is another phase that damage can occur. The other element, the other driver of water damage is really comes from water intrusion. And that is from, you know, water coming from outside sources. It's ingress from the bottom up. It's rain or water. It's a whole bunch of areas like that where the envelope could be open or, you know, as Ray gave some examples there of water infiltrating from different sources around the, you know, around the project. The four key areas that are really critical for water escape and water intrusion is and really the capabilities for an IoT water mitigation system really go to four key areas. And one is water detection of having different types of sensors in different inappropriate locations to detect water and understand and alert the project teams that water is somewhere it shouldn't be. People do this differently. We do this with we've kind of gone around with different water detection devices and we've got it so we can now modify the water detection sensors so it makes it easy to move for construction environments. We have different, you know, different sensors based on, you know, is water expected to trigger this or is this a highly sensitive area that we're putting detection in. So water detection, a core one for flow monitoring and understanding, you know, water movement through pipes is critical. We do this ourselves through an ultrasonic flow monitoring capability so it's non-intrusive which makes it a little easier and much easier to install during the construction phase because it doesn't have to be spec'd in. It's just a non-intrusive device that's put on the outside of a pipe run. But, you know, bottom line is you need to understand that the, you know, when water is moving, especially after hours and water detection and flow monitoring, you need to be able to link those wherever possible to automatic shutoff controls. You know, the shutoff controls are important because, you know, you obviously this is how you're going to prevent an incident, reduce the severity from water escape especially. And also a system that has the ability to be put on a shutoff control or a schedule has a tremendous amount of value to give assurance that water is being turned off every night. So automatic shutoff is usually a big portion of water mitigation capabilities and then depending where those shutoff controls go, obviously there's a concern around booster pumps and the different pumps that are active on site as well. So having the ability to control those pumps is important. So these are the four capabilities of a good IoT mitigation system. In construction, you can see that there's different phases that goes through. So in the actual construction, which we term as phase one, there's two phases of construction. One is the early construction where you basically start your interior finishings and you're building out the project. And then it becomes extremely high risk in the commissioning stage when everything, all the lines are being pressurized and the system, basically you're a couple months before turning over the project and now everything is becoming online and active. So identifying and having systems that can fit into the construction and the commissioning stage and as well if there is a need after the fact to fit into post TCO is kind of really what you're looking for. I thought I'd just go through some of the areas that IOT could help on projects and where we're seeing our deployments installed. And one is around the water intrusion aspect. It's basically ground water, controlling ground water in sump pits. There's a lot of dewatering that's done during the construction process. And these sump pits have pumps, temporary pumps put in them. And unfortunately it's not uncommon for these pumps to fail or the power to click off. And what happens is the water rises, it floods over and it can affect, we've had a lot of situations where it can go up quite a ways, it can hit power, it can electrify the whole project and shut the project down. So very, very easy in common sense, it's really easy to put a water detection sensor in that pump or sorry, in that pit and be able to alert the project team when water levels rise above a certain level. And this allows them the ability to go deal with any pump issues. It might require them to add another pump in a rain event or a significant weather event, but this allows them the ability to control their destiny essentially. And this is for groundwater, we see this as being very important. Another common area where IOT is being used during construction is temporary water runs. As Ray indicated, these temporary water runs are not spec'd, they're required to get water up to the trades. And they're usually put together really quickly by a plumber or mechanical contractor with PEX lines and they become a very high risk when you start interior finishes. But what happens is the mechanical or the plumber is usually responsible for turning this water off at the end of the day. If they leave early, if they forget, responsibilities usually don't get picked off and now you have a pressurized and active line on overnight when you're fitting out, doing your drywall, your mill work and a bunch of different things. So there's a really basic IOT risk control solution, which is essentially what we do is we put a valve on that temporary water run, we install our flow meter, and now once that's installed, we're able to put our auto shutoff controller on it and we control the water on a schedule. We make sure the water gets turned off every night and upon startup in the morning. So we automate the startup and we look for excess flow, which would be indicative of a tapping left open or a line blowing. And then we automate the shutoff controls if there is water detected. Just give you a little bit of an example of how this could help. This is a project in Miami, Florida. You could see here, this is a screenshot from a platform showing the flow monitoring. So this is the water moving through the pipes. And you can see it's off, there's no water moving. And when the water goes on, there's a couple marks that are registered. So over the course of two, three minutes here, water is detected, it is understood. So there is a detection at 5.52 AM before anyone's on site, the water gets turned on. And what that does, it's an indication that the water is moving. So in this particular case, there's a booster pump that actually blew off a line and water started pouring out. Within a couple minutes, the system recognizes that and automates the shutoff control. And in this particular case, this would have been a claim for sure. There would have been about 1600 gallons of water spewed onto the project while they're doing their interior finishes. And this would have led to a significant claim. Other areas that we commonly see IoT monitoring used and leak detection systems used in is electrical rooms. These are the backbone of the project. They're equipment that's being installed early on, high risk, very long lead times. So water detection sensors in the right location can alert the team that water has infiltrated into this area for whatever reason and alert them that they need to do something about it. So we see these used quite a bit in around the concrete pads, around the walls. They're able to understand when things are, when water is somewhere it shouldn't be. And the real-time alerts are enabling for a quick response to mitigate the damage. Ray talked quite a bit about envelope and open envelope and water events. As you're building, there's a bunch of holes in the floors and that water will migrate down in the right scenario. Envelope is open. There is a bunch of work going on where that envelope is closed. Most namely, one of the highest risk is that electrical again. There's usually an electrical closet or an electrical shaft going up and there's always work taking place below. What the contractors do is they create a temporary water barrier. It's usually just some grout, maybe some plastic to keep water from moving down that area. How IOT can help minimize risk in this situation is really just water detection sensors below that barrier. And therefore, if water is able to pass the barrier, it's picked up by the sensor, it alerts the project team and communicates to them that water is traveling down the building. Just common sense for helping them out. Water detection sensors in elevator pits are very, very, very common sense as well. This is, when you look at elevators in general, there is a low point in the building. Elevators are usually critical path equipment. That means that if there is damage to them, there will be a delay in the project. So these elevators are, when they do get damaged, they have to send out for specialty parts and it takes a long time to fix. So common sense again tells us that a water detection device in these areas designed for this purpose can add a significant benefit in communicating to the project team that water is somewhere it shouldn't be during the elevator install. What we do is we put a wireless water probe on the drain of the elevator shaft and therefore we're able to pick up water coming from the bottom up as well as coming from the top down. So if there's water intrusion from, because of that low-lying area or if there's water that has been able to infiltrate from the top down, then we're able to send a notification to the team and alert them that water is somewhere it shouldn't be. As we move forward now, all of a sudden you are getting closer to finishing your project. And what happens is you start your water commissioning process. And this is really the process around activating the lines and now you have concerns because your building is almost complete. And now you've got all these pressurized lines that are on your project. So you need a way of protecting the domestic cold water supply. And this is the best way of embedding in a valve into the system that can be automated. What happens during construction is there's some testing that's done where lines are constantly being filled up and water is being turned on or off. To avoid any issues, you want to make sure the water's turned off. So we would put our valve on a schedule and make sure the water's turned off to these areas for a good portion of the commissioning process. Once that water has to stay on and now your lines are activated, then we switch to flow monitoring rules. And what we look for is abnormal water flow in the evenings. So if no one's on site and water starts moving, then we can automate shutoff controls. And that's of course going to reduce the severity of any water incident that takes place. Having the ability to scale up or down is important as well, based on the budget, based on the risk tolerances. But this is commonly, typically how it works is stage one would be controlling and understanding water flow through the domestic cold water supply that's feeding the building. As you go up a tower, for example, you might want to zone out the riser itself and separate that out, as well as put water detection devices in some areas where water could be common, like PRV zones, where there's a pressure reduction that's taking place. Circulation, the return lines, the domestic hot water return lines might be another area, but the mechanical closets are zoned for water detection. And then as you want to scale up, the building can itself be zoned out and controlled. So each zone that feeds a certain number of floors can be controlled and flow monitoring. So it's important to have a system that can go up or down based on the budget and the risk tolerances and what market you're in, especially. This is a pretty good example from my neck of the woods, which is Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, on the West Coast. This is a project that was very late stage construction of the monitoring of the domestic cold water supply. What you see here is, Friday at six o'clock, there's no water flow through the building and a manifold blew up. And what happened is, there's obviously a spike in water flow, which we detect and we're able to then automate our shut off control. And that kicks in in a number of minutes. What you can see here is 724 to 726. And so we're able to reduce the severity of this drastically. And what this was, was it's over 39,000 liters late stage construction. This would have been a multi-million dollar claim. And a simple leak detection solution provided just a very basic and easy cleanup. Other areas that IOT is benefiting is mechanical rooms. So again, where a lot of these issues can take place is in the mechanical rooms. Water detection sensors can provide early detection there. We've talked about sprinklers or re-brought up sprinklers. This is another area, but understanding for early detection when water is moving through that system can reduce the severity of the water incident as well. So there's a bunch of different areas to it. And lastly, the area that I like to focus on because it is a very important part is the connectivity. The connectivity is supplying, basically the brain of the operation. So you are getting all the data from all the devices and it has to reliably connect up to the platform so it can run against the thresholds. So these link boxes are very, very important for the project. They are operating on different radio frequencies and that's what you want. It can't operate on wifi, it's just not reliable enough. And what you're looking for specifically with these link boxes and connecting up is the ability for a 900 megahertz radio frequency, a long range radio frequency that bounces through concrete quite well, gets to the link box where now you're using LTE or cellular connectivity to upload that data. And I'd say just from perspective as well is that these can be kind of complicated things to set up of signal mapping different sensors, getting the connectivity. So having a turnkey service can have a lot of value here in terms of getting assurance for insurance carriers to know that this is being done properly. And this is actually the approach that we take. Talking about insurance here. So I just wanted to, this is kind of our last poll question we're gonna do is this is a scenario that you've been informed that a leak detection system will be implemented on your project that you're underwriting. What would provide you with greater confidence and understanding the associated risks? Is it assurance that the system will be installed and operational? Is it accountability for ensuring the system works effectively? Is it visibility into the system usage, locations and timeframes? Is it a documented IoT water response plan or is it all of the above? What are you guys' thoughts? Okay, flash that up there. Good stuff. Bottom line is what we're trying to flesh out here is 92% of you said all of the above, which is accurate. This is really about increasing the visibility of what's gonna take place on your project. And these are all things that you can ask for. So there's not any, all of these things add a tremendous amount of value in reducing risk. Which leads to kind of how these things can help in driving the benefit across the insurance cycle and the policy and construction cycle. And one of the ways that we personally are helping, I think in pre-construction, which is a critical portion of this is to de-risk this in pre-construction through a project specific IoT water mitigation plan. Refine the scope, kind of get the scope dialed in and then be able to provide some assurance to underwriters and the carriers out there that there is a system that's being used, provide some visibility around what is being used through takeoffs of the plan and specifics on where the sensors are located and the monitoring timeframes they're expected to be in and be able to back that up with, to say that, hey, this is going to be installed and reduce the risk around the project in pre-construction before it gets to the markets. So that's an approach that I think is fairly new and I think is really important in the cycle of de-risking projects and moving forward with the insurance side. Obviously during construction, the technology deployment happens. During that process as well is there's a, there should be a water response plan that is created on the systems and the technology that's being used. There should be names associated with it. There should be a response plans that if water is moving over a certain amount that water gets turned off. And so all that should be noted. It's not, so that's part of a process that should take place. And then you should have the ability to, after the fact is to analyze through the post-construction to gain insight and therefore potentially lower the insurance costs and reduce that risk. And it's just continuing that process of the risk control analytics through insight. We focus quite a bit ourselves on de-risking the projects in pre-construction. You know, as I indicated, we're looking at different MEP drawing packages and construction schedules, developing the plan. We're issuing a certificate of protection. And really the benefit is around trying to, for the insurances is to make sure that they have a budget for the mitigation technology upfront. If that happens late in the project, they're always looking to shave money and usually the systems are kind of half baked in there. So being able to address it upfront is really important for all, to align all the stakeholders on the requirements. And a lot of them are looking to use these systems to potentially secure lower deductibles and reduce buy downs as well. And therefore they can enhance their risk management and best practices. The brokers on the call, you know, we think that there's a tremendous amount of value for them by being able to submit a project specific tech plan upfront. It's allows them the ability to position the client as a better risk to insure. And in a lot of cases, helping to secure additional capacity per market. And as well simplify the syndication for placement. For underwriters, you know, this is critical. I work with a lot of underwriters to, you know, allow them the ability to gain a lot more visibility on the risks and get some certainty upfront on this. It allows them the benefit or it allows them as well to incentivize the, you know, through proactive risk mitigation. So someone that is taking some, you know, being proactive and trying to reduce their risks, they should be incentivized. And there is an opportunity for underwriters to go through that process and drive that. Cause it allows ultimately then to place the capacity on lower risk projects. You know, as far as moving forward with a reputable partner, I think there's a couple big things that you want to look for is one is, is a turnkey technology deployment. I think in the last couple of years, it's kind of cycled through already, but what we have seen is a lot of DIY systems have kind of come and gone. And this is really like valves that might be shipped to ship the sites and not installed. And what we recognize is that the fact that you need somebody to do this, you need somebody accountable for deploying the technology, you need a project manager assigned to it, you need somebody that is going to go through and, and with the installation and the setup and the configuration, the onboarding and the maintenance. So that is a really important part of reducing the risk. You need somebody with a proven construction record. So it has some understanding because residential solutions that use Wi Fi, for example, or sensors that aren't fit for purpose, just don't work. So you need somebody that understands the construction environments, you need the all risk water mitigation. So whether it's escape or intrusion, you need someone working with the insurance and being able to offer these IoT, you know, water mitigation plans, and they're, you know, providing certificate of protections. And you need some flexible contract options. So you need the ability to be able to work within people's budgets as well. So just just a few, a couple takeaways, I guess, just for what we would consider some next steps for, you know, people on this call that that might be interested to drive the adoption of construction technology would be, you know, one is, is things that you can do is educate yourself and stay current on the construction risk mitigation technology solutions that are available. You know, this is what we do. We do a lot of lunch and learns and a lot of outreach to people and, and collaborations. So, so, so reach out to us is number two, essentially, we can help to reduce the risk on your on your on your projects and policies. You know, request, you know, again, it's up to, to, you know, people usually respond to what is asked. So if you're looking for a project specific IoT, water mitigation plan, if you're asking for a certificate of protection, you know, these are things that can help you de risk the projects up front. So, so so ask for them. Provide incentive to your clients that are proactively adopting this technology. It is a you know, like it is a win win situation for everybody. So so encourage that with potentially lower deductibles and preferential coverage terms. That is a way that we are seeing that everybody is, you know, somebody, a lot of people need that little extra incentive to adopt the technology. And then collaborate with the insurance and technology providers such as brick I and, and sharing of risk control KPIs and analytics. And this is really the, you know, helping to gain insight after the fact is really important to get ahead of this and control the water losses on projects. So that that's, that's what I got. And yeah, so at this time, I think we probably have a bunch of questions. There's Eileen again, and Chris and Ray, that was fantastic. Excellent presentation. You certainly had a lot of rich content here. New directions that I have not even heard in all my listening. So we've eight great questions so far. So we'll start with number one. Kathleen Beal asks, do you have a breakout of the water damage claims by cause? Good question. I'll leave that to Ray, maybe to answer her address. I don't have an exact breakout from a like a specific data standpoint. But I would say over time, as I said, I think I've been talking about this for seems like forever, but at least since mid 2000s, initially, there was a it was mostly external source, driven by schedule, compression, getting the building, you know, interior finishes progressing as soon as you can. And so it was a lot of external source, you know, wind driven rain, those kind of things. Over time, it's actually evolved where that's become less of an exposure in my mind. And now it's it's really driven by this internal source. And a lot of that is driven by these different types of fittings, a lot more sensitive systems in buildings, and just, you know, more sources with these different types of occupancies. So, again, you know, I don't have a specific data. But I would say internal source right now in the industry is probably the bigger issue. And maybe just to add to that, like, I think this is the challenge is in construction, there are so many potential sources of water damage that can occur from all different, different walks. So, you know, that is the challenge essentially is, is trying to target the key areas where water damage can affect the most, which I think we've, I think we the water escape and the water intrusion portion is kind of the important thing to keep in mind there. Yeah, and that's kind of why we talked, you know, the IoT is a really important part, but it's only part of the overall and it comes back to the project management. It's just, you know, it has to be proactive, and it has to focus on mitigating it. So. A question from Sean, does site security play a part in mitigating water damages? I'm going to take this one, Ray, because I got a great story. A local project in Vancouver, so it does. But I wouldn't say they're ultimately reliable in that sense. A project in Vancouver where there was a manifold that blew up on a hydraulic system on a Saturday evening. And on Sunday, the security guard had written in his notes that he heard water. And on Monday, when the crew got there, it was about $6 million in damage. So the security is in concept, it is an interesting idea. But the reality is that the security companies may not be as reliable. They can definitely add to it and contribute to it and help with, you know, help with observing things. But it shouldn't be the end all be all. Right. And I think to add to that is, again, it gets back to what level of protection, what level of sophistication that you have on a project that doesn't have any IoT doesn't have anything, but it has security guard, you know, having them be able to notify project management that it's happening, or having them trained to shut it off. That's that's, that's, that would be good. But, you know, again, that's that, you know, de risking that Chris was talking about, is you can go a lot further than just that you can have a lot more tools to, to mitigate it. So I'd say in general, it's it could be positive. But as Chris just exemplified, it's, you know, I heard water running on Saturday. Yeah. Didn't do anything about it, but I heard water. Excellent. We have Robin Kemper asks, I've had discussions with contractors about having maps showing the location of the valves. The response is they don't want to do so, because they want to keep the locations close to the vest. So not just anyone would open or close a valve. Any recommendations on how to respond to this? That's a tough one, guy. I understand, I guess the, because craft and management can always be a little bit of loggerheads. But, you know, I don't, that's a that's a challenge. I would say better to have the information than to not. But if you don't want to reveal where the shutoffs are, then go to an automated system. And you don't have to, you know, you might not have to worry about that. Right. So, yeah, I think there's two aspects to that. One is that, you know, in a lot of cases, the valves will be placed in a mechanical room. And that mechanical room is usually locked off and closed off to the general public for that reason. So I think that's part of it. Number two is that, yeah, using a, you know, valve with an actuator, it's not as easy to turn on and off as, you know, as you would think it is meant to be used through an app. And so that leads to the kind of the I guess the third part is really, you know, what we do is we're able to assign different permissions to different people that are using the app. So, you know, you know, there's different responder levels where you can get detected versus have the ability remotely to turn water on and off. So that's just granted to certain people. So there's different permissions there, I think. So, you know, one is is, yeah, like, like, make sure the mechanical room is where these things are placed can be locked off late stage construction where it's where, you know, if water is turned off in an act of, you know, sabotage or vandalism, that that's prevented. And number two is, yeah, wherever possible, rely on the valves and actuators that are remotely controlled through an app and have a system that does have permissions, permission based. Cindy Long asks, if the GC does not install a leak detector, would this be a red flag for risk mitigation, as I believe the leak detectors can be costly? I would say water damage is costly, too. So. Yeah, you know, in a lot of cases, it's a water leak detection system will probably come in at a fraction of $250,000, $500,000 or $1 million deductible. And therefore, you know, what what is the what is the cost? Because you've got a bunch of different challenges out there as well. In addition to that deductible for a contractor, you know, the owner has exposure through their financing costs. Obviously, at some point, we just got to get all these, you know, 70% of what builders whose claims are coming from water damage, you got to get it under control at some point. Excellent. Rod and Kemper, another question, are the IoT solutions intended to be used during construction only or can they be a permanent installation to protect the building once operation from water damage? Yeah, good question. You know, I'd say what we targeted today is construction. I think it's important to recognize that it is basically, you know, certain things can overlap. But systems intended for occupancy, like in suite monitoring, is really a different aspect. And, you know, protecting, we focused on protecting the project for course of construction, the systems that are recommended in that case, I'd say some of them can transfer over. But the needs are usually quite different from post occupancy is what I would consider post occupancy through to, you know, or construction. I would say a lot of times, most of these systems can be transferred to another project, not necessarily implemented on a completed facility. Yeah, a lot of them can stay in place. It's just, you know, it's just, it's really dependent. But what we addressed specifically is the course of construction. And I'm, you know, separating those two and understanding that there are different requirements for each. And there can be things that transfer over is important. Yeah, but what I was trying to say was your construction focused IOT really is not what you would do in a permanent installation, it would be different type of installation. But you could possibly utilize those construction resources on the next project or... Exactly right. Yeah. And before we have a couple more questions, but before I continue, I just want to draw attention to the survey link in the chat box for our attendees. Before logging out today, just take a moment to complete it because your feedback is very valuable to us. I will do a few more minutes and we have a couple more questions. So Don Barker asked, are there any good water control irrigation sample plans that you might recommend to reference or use? I would say that if you're in the insurance industry, they are finally becoming more and more routine as part of submissions. So there's definitely out there. I think it's, you know, gets back to having the four main elements we talked about, the identification, the notification, the mitigation, and the response. And how that's in wordsmith or whatever you want to call it, how that's described is, you know, is not necessarily important to just make sure that it has those elements as part of that plan. So. Yeah, I've seen a lot of those plans are, you know, especially for the general water risk mitigation there, you know, contractors that spend a lot of time on those. And so you'll see different levels of detail in these and based on who you're working with. On the IOT side of things, I think that's one of the benefits that we would be able to provide is that kind of, you know, putting together a plan for the project specific and being consistent with our offering and what we're recommending. And therefore kind of taking it out of the contractor's hands, essentially, of adding on to that water risk mitigation plan through an IOT specific. Got a lot of thank yous and words of appreciation in the questions, but I'll let Brenda Myung have the last question here, which kind of ties in with what we were just sharing, Chris. What is the main motivation for clients to purchase the Brook Valley system? Is it potential premium deductible to reduction or more reputation risk management? I'd say both, yeah. What we do is, you know, our first priority is protecting the project and protecting, you know, the owners and contractors and obviously insureds. And then we ourselves have developed in pre-construction of trying our best to de-risk the project using our technology so we can, so that can be considered. And we are seeing that starting to be accepted quite extensively and we're starting to see lower deductibles and those kind of incentives offered, right? Because it's, if an underwriter sees that a project is less risky, there is, there should be some incentive to use the technology to move forward. Yeah, and I, part of it is just, you know, insurance covers damage, but not necessarily all of the impacts that, you know, a major loss event would generate. So, there's always those indirect costs that are significant. So, Eileen, I have one public service announcement. If you are an employee, ask your, if you're an employee, ask your manager to get involved in IMUA. And if you're a manager, ask your employees to get involved in IMUA. It's important. It's a, you know, this organization and we as an industry are only as good as each of us individually. So, I just, I've done a lot of things for IMUA over the years and I think, you know, there's a lot of people out there that have expertise, have knowledge, and to share is important. So, thank you. Thank you for that shout out, Ray. And one of the questions was on where to get some information on certain things. And certainly, the Lost Control and Claims Committee has produced a lot of white papers. We have over 150 hours of recorded webinars and classes and we have a library of many white papers. So, certainly, it's a good place to look. And if you're on this webinar, you are a member of IMUA. So, you have all access to our education. It's all on demand. So, thanks for pointing that out, Ray. So, Chris, if you would move to the final slide, I will ask you both one more question. Are you ready to share the winner of the most slash best engaged? Yeah, I can. I was tracking him. I, Ray, if you don't mind, maybe I'll just award this to Robin. I, that was my suggestion, so. And I wrote her name down to Robin Kemper. You had a couple good questions there. So, thank you so much. Be on the lookout for $25 Amazon gift card. And again, thank you to Ray and to Chris, as well as to all of our attendees for your participation. And you will get a follow-up email with the survey link. Please take some time to share your feedback if you didn't do so already. And we hope to see you at the next event. Have a great rest of the day. A lot of thank yous coming in. So, again, many thanks, Ray. Thank you, everybody. Thanks, everybody, for joining up. Take care.

Builder's Risk

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Inland Marine Underwriters Association

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Water Damage

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