Welcome to today's webinar, Cargo Theft Trends and an Underwriters' Guide to Reduce Losses hosted by Inland Marine Underwriters Association. I'm Lillian Coulson, and I'd like to thank our esteemed slate of presenters whom I'll introduce momentarily for preparing this presentation, as well as my colleagues, Eileen and Ali Monreale for coordinating the webinar with our presenters. We have over 100 attendees registered to participate today, which is truly a testament to the importance of this topic, and we look forward to learning together today. Before we get started, we have a couple of quick housekeeping items to review. To help reduce strain on your local network, we suggest you close all unnecessary browsers and internet-reliant programs. You will find your attendee control panel on your screen, and it will automatically minimize by default. At any point, you can click on the orange arrow icon, and that will auto-unhide your control panel to restore it. Due to our time scheduled today, we're going to reserve questions for the end of today's presentation. However, at any time during the webinar, you can click on the Q&A box, type in your question, and we'll share it with our presenters at the end of the presentation today. Also, at the end of the presentation, you can raise your hand, and then we'll open up your mic. We'll call on you. You'll open up your mic, ask your question, and we just ask that you close your mic again after you finish asking your question. We'll also offer one $25 Amazon gift card at the end of today's session for the most engaged attendee with the best question. Please be aware of the IMUA statement. Without further delay, I'd like to introduce today's presenters. At the bottom of your screen, and also you'll see him at the top, we have Tim Grendel. With over 15 years of industry experience, five on the broker placement side, and 10 on the carrier underwriting side, Tim Grendel is the National Transportation Product Leader of Inland Marine. He has specialized in transportation for the past 10 years. Stephen Lang is Manager of Member Services at CargoNet. He holds a Bachelor's of Business Administration and Management from Wellesley College. Steve began his career at the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration and has been at CargoNet for 10 years and also serves as the Marketing Manager at National Equipment Register. Sal Marino, who has 10 years of supply chain experience with DHL and UPS and 11 years of cargo security solutions, is Vice President of Business Development at CargoNet. He's an active member of IMUA's Lost Control and Claims Committee and Transportation Committee. Keith Lewis, who has over 20 years of experience in the third-party logistics industry, along with a career in law enforcement, is Vice President of Operations at CargoNet, where he's responsible for managing CargoNet's operational efforts, including supervising operations staff and providing investigative services for CargoNet members. Our presenters will share a little bit more about themselves during the presentation today. Welcome, and now I'll turn the presentation over to Tim Grendel to kick things off. Yeah, thank you for the introduction, Lillian. It's my pleasure to be here. Good afternoon to most and good morning to some on the West Coast. My name is Tim Grendel, and I am the National Transportation Product Leader here at Allianz. We have four modules in today's presentation. I can flip the slide. There we go. First, an underwriting overview provided by me. Second module, cargo theft, trends and statistics provided by our friends at CargoNet, a case study, and then finally that Q&A at the end of the presentation. And again, just a reminder, hold your questions there to the end. But for the underwriting portion of this presentation, we have a lot of ground to cover in only about 15 minutes, so let's jump in. We're going to focus on four parts. Number one, a brief overview of the types of cargo theft. Number two, submission materials and what we like to see in said submission materials. Number three, policy and coverage. And then finally, number four, some other resources we can use as underwriters. Types of cargo theft. Let me preface this slide by saying it's important to know the types of cargo theft to understand your general theft exposure, but it's important to know then to understand how your policy will respond. And that doesn't matter if you're an underwriter or you're a broker. So here towards the end in part three, we will look at an AAIS motor truck cargo policy form. So it's important, again, to remember each of these bullet points. So the first one, traditional theft or straight theft committed by a third party. Call them a criminal. Call them a thief. Call them much worse. And as an underwriter, they can really tear up your loss ratio. But it's still the most common type of theft that we see today. It could be unintended vehicle theft. It could be a detached trailer theft. It could be armed robbery. Or it could just be a partial theft of goods from an unlocked trailer. Bullet point two, employee theft. So theft by an owner, officer, director, employee, or owner operator that's been entrusted with the load. And this just isn't limited, obviously, to the driver. So it could be dispatch. It could be terminal worker or another employee. And as always, employee theft is just so difficult to actually prove as an insurance carrier. Thirdly, inside theft. This is any party with interest in the goods. So this could include the aforementioned employee theft. But this also could include the shipper or the receiver as well. Next, voluntary partying. With the increase in technology and logistics, which is very, very abundant in the industry, there's been an increase in scams. So voluntary partying and sophisticated schemes have been on a meteoric rise for years. Fictitious pickups, identity theft, or some kind of scheme or trick where the insured is unaware of such and they release the goods. And you see the Bitcoin picture there. Thieves are getting very, very creative. We currently have a theft loss at Alliant where cargo thieves are trying to extort $8,000 in cryptocurrency. Essentially, they're holding the load hostage until they are paid the crypto. And then they're supposedly agreeing to release the load. And this is very similar to what you've seen in the news, whether it's government agencies, municipalities, small businesses, large corporations, being held out, being basically held hostage out of their own systems. Just in this case, it's a singular load. So you're asking, did the insured pay the extortion request? No, they didn't. Have we recovered the load at this point? Unfortunately, no. It's very fresh. It's currently ongoing, but just shows you what's been developing. I mean, cryptocurrency has been around for, gosh, 10 years or so. But this is a new one on me. And then lastly, the other, if you will, pilferage, shortage, or mysterious disappearance. These types of losses are usually very small in nature, typically under $25,000. Usually much less, closer to $5,000. Pilferage is becoming much more common as well. And we currently actually have an insured with over $500,000 in pilferage claims. Most are going to be under the deductible, but maybe not all. We essentially had two terminal workers employed by our motor carrier. We had a retail warehouse employee involved, and then also the driver. So we have a mountain of paperwork right now that we're sifting through. We'll probably have to bring in the forensic accountants. But most of these will be separate occurrences under the deductible. So this pilferage piece and mysterious disappearance is becoming much, much more prevalent. But those are the basic types of cargo theft that we see today. Submission content, part two. Let me start with a caveat. Not all submissions are created equal. Sometimes we get the very, very detailed transportation application with a security section, supporting attachments, and then some of the times we get the basic Accord application with very, very little detail. And I just recommend this at the end of the day. Not all risks are created equal. We may have a 100-unit motor carrier that hauls all electronics with a million-dollar limit, versus we may have a 20-unit motor carrier hauling paper and plastics in dry van with only a $100,000 limit. So as always with underwriting, we have to balance the information and assess the risk and not ask too much on the innocuous risks, but certainly not ask too little when we're dealing with some of those higher theft exposures where it's warranted. So when we do have a motor carrier highly exposed to cargo theft, I first look for culture and procedures. Do they have a written program with formal security and load securement procedures? Do they train all their employees? Because at the end of the day, it doesn't benefit anyone if the handbook just sits in a drawer. And even better, are they auditing those procedures? Does the program require regular communication with dispatch? No stops within the first 100 to 200 miles upon acceptance of the load. I like to see 200 miles. One of our most common theft occurrences are thieves who just wait outside the terminal, follow the unit for the first 30 minutes and try to steal the unattended vehicle right there without a secure stop. So are the lots secure, whether it is a quick stop or it is an overnight stop? So we like to see all these things written in a security statement. The next bullet point, high value load protocol. And back to our $1 million limit electronics motor carrier example. Do they have a or excuse me, do they pay additional attention to high value targets? You take a look through this. There's a couple of slides in this example, but it provides very meticulous instructions of what to do before arriving at a shipper's location, while at the shipper's location in transit and at the receiver or destination. And it does a great job of really keeping the driver on task in contact with only key personnel, verifying the bill of lading, verifying the seals, making sure they're not stopping within the first 200 miles, knowing where to securely stop. And then when warranted, there's a piece in there about team drivers and team loads and making sure they keep, you know, that that singular team driver in the unit at all times. And this right now, I can tell you, this is an example of a gold standard of protocol. And unfortunately, it's an exception rather than the rule. But a written security program, high value load protocol and security culture is just so important to avoid cargo theft. And it's really the foundation. On the next slide, though, as we continue into submission information, driver hiring criteria, security culture may be the foundation. But on the other hand, if we aren't hiring the right drivers, then we have major, major problems. What happens in the seat is so crucial. We need to confirm standard background check, criminal background check and drug testing is part of the vetting process. Vehicle technology, vehicle technology is great. GPS tracking on the individual truck, on the pallet, on the box, on the crate, theft alarms, cameras. The challenge is technology is not 100 percent foolproof. And I can attest to it. How many of us have seen the theft loss where the GPS or the tracker is ripped out of the unit and found alongside the highway? Or the very sophisticated thieves will even use GPS jammers. So, again, not foolproof, but certainly great to have in most cases. The next couple items, maybe lower tech, if you will, kingpin locks and glad hand locks. A very crucial one, unhooking the tractor and leaving a trailer unintended. Bobtailing, if you will, or just waiting for someone else to pick it up. Kingpin locks. They prevent fifth wheel attachment and glad hand. They prevent the airline hookup and they prevent brake release. Do a Google search. I'll encourage you. Again, low tech items. They cost less than 50 bucks each if you want to take a look at what they actually look like and what they cost. And you can even buy them on Amazon. Very important to have. But at the same time, it also gets me thinking. It's great that we have these these unattended theft items or prevention items. But that means we have unattended trailers, which leads to the thought process. We all see the trailer sitting in the vacant parking lot and we hope it's not ours or we hope that it's not loaded. So we need to make sure we have the security with terminal yards, drop yards, stopover security. Is it fenced? Is it lighted? Is it locked? Are there security guards? And then specifically when looking at, you know, normal range of radius in metro areas or even looking at specific terminals, there's a lot of tools out there to run a crime score. At Allianz, we use ProMetrix. There's a lot of different equivalents, but we can pull the crime score on that that terminal and decide, are they operating a facility in a crime score that's maybe five times the national average? So in the back of your mind, is it do we necessitate the fencing, the lighting, the security guard? Next slide. I'm not going to go super in depth on this one. Our friends at CargoNet have some great graphs later in this presentation. But certainly as underwriters, we look at states and specific city or metro areas and we have very specific hot spots in specific states. And it's no surprise when you look at Dallas, L.A., Miami, Chicago and Atlanta. They're certainly all major transportation hubs. So just something to watch out for. And again, you'll see some more data on this later in the presentation. But most complex transportation applications, they're going to outline this specifically. Accord applications, maybe not so much. But then also within states and metro area radius. Very important, especially when we talk about not wanting to stop within the first 200 miles. If you have a local radius or sometimes even intermediate, you may not even need to stop. Long haul trucking over 500 miles, much more exposure than the local or the intermediate. And then commodity saying we're going to see some more from CargoNet. But we talk about target theft versus typical theft. And if I asked what the top three stolen goods were, I think most would say pharmaceuticals, electronics, tobacco and alcohol. And when you get out of the data, it's not too far off. You see major appliances, food and beverage, including alcoholic beverages and then electronics. But I think the reality is any weak point is going to be excluded regardless of commodity. And then I've talked a lot about specific cargo theft attributes we should focus on and they're all very important. But ultimately, our standard fundamentals of motor truck cargo underwriting are very important. Years in business and reputation, experience. Very, very important to to to underwrite. Do they have sound financials so they can hire the right drivers, purchase the technology, pay a safety director to train and enforce policies and stay up on the latest theft trend? And then do they have a good CAB report, formal safety programs? These are just all basic items that are indicative and impactful for for a better cargo theft risk. And then finally, the last one, contract management. Are they limiting their liability in any way? We saw electronics as a top target. And our motor carriers will sign specific contracts for these commodities. Are they limiting their total exposure or liability to 100 K, 250, 250 K or even 500 K? So we don't pay that one million dollar pop or claim. So that's why we need to ask for four key shipper contracts on some of those higher, higher, higher risk target commodities. Last one review, pretty self-explanatory. Do they have a history of theft or suspicious losses? And what proactive steps have been taken since the incident? Here we have an example of a scrubbed loss run of an ex-insured of mine that I wrote for for 10 years or that we wrote for 10 years at Alliant that I underwrote for five years. Three theft claims in about six to seven months or excuse me, six to seven months. Very concerning. We have a proverbial come to Jesus meeting, if you will, with them. And we find they really had no protocol around secure stops or avoiding cargo theft hotspots. So there was an active theft ring in the in the area where they were making a lot of their stops. So we're talking we had some some Levi jeans. We had some electronics and it got pretty nasty, as you can see by some of the lost data there. But formal procedures were put in place. Specific rest stops and truck stops were avoided because they were recognized as hotspots. And then the next three years, no cargo theft losses. So I am a firm believer in getting a story on correction. And it absolutely can can produce positive results. Policy and coverage. I know this can bore everyone and put it to sleep, but reading our policy forms and understanding them are just so, so important. And I'm sorry to do it again, but I'm going to start with a caveat here. Not all forms are created equal when it comes to cargo theft. We all know it. Example here at Alliant, we have three separate motor truck cargo forms and they all handle employee theft and they all handle voluntary parting differently. One has a total exclusion. The other has a sub limit for both. And then the last, the broadest form has has no exclusion at all. So it's very important that we understand our forms and what we're providing for each risk. Property not covered there. This is a common section in in all motor truck cargo policy forms. And you see it listed there. And I want to emphasize this is not the same as adding an endorsement for further additional excluded commodities. These are just the standard built in that you're going to find in most motor truck cargo forms. So our jewelry, precious stones, metals, money, securities. There's a few others, but those are the target. So, again, not not specifically excluded by endorsement, but built in the form. So let's do look at a form there at the bottom of the slide. We're looking at the AIS motor truck cargo form. I am 7450 2020 edition. You're going to see there's a criminal and dishonest tax exclusion. It applies to you, others who have interest in the property, others to whom you entrust with the property, your partners, officers, directors, trustees, and then the employees of basically all of the above. And this is a pretty standard AIS criminal dishonest tax exclusion. And it does follow in a lot of motor truck cargo policy forms out there. So you're going to see that employee theft is excluded and you're going to see that inside that is excluded here by this by this form as well. Same form that we're looking at, but specifically for voluntary parting. So including fraudulent scheme, trick, false pretense. the form says it's excluded, except for whatever minimal coverage is, is provided under the fraud and deceit coverage extension. So as you read that through there, what, what's picked up in, in 3A, um, we get down to B, the limit, which is disconcerting, um, if you're the insured or the broker, um, it's going to pay a thousand dollars if you're fraudulently induced to, to part with property through false representation or fraudulent bill of lading. Um, so, so not a lot of coverage, especially when we talk about all the technology and all the things that, uh, that are new with, with logistics becoming so prevalent. And then finally, last piece of, of the form review here on this, um, AAIS 7450, um, the policy language for mysterious disappearance and missing property is totally excluded under this form. Um, it's going to exclude mysterious disappearance and, you know, just kind of reading through that language. We talk about pilferage at the beginning and it being very small claims. A lot of the times it's going to preclude coverage for, for pilferage. So in general, um, this AAIS IM 7450 2020 edition, really, you're just really looking at standard straight line, third party theft. So that's why it's very, very important. We understand, um, how our policy reacts and, and includes or precludes coverage. Um, underwriting coverage solutions, if you'll call it, um, we all get into the tough exposure, high limits, target theft, commodities, history of claims. Um, we can make the decision to, to decline, um, or we can make a decision to, to craft terms and conditions, um, to protect our financial balance sheets as, as the insurance carrier. Um, we can start with a higher deductible specific to a commodity and I do this on a regular basis. Um, it's upfront, the broker sees it, the insured sees it, there's no stipulations for what they may or may not need to do, um, which is very different than a warranty. A warranty, you have a locked vehicle warranty, you have an unattended vehicle warranty, you have a detached trailer warranty, um, all essentially eliminating coverage if, if those things aren't in place. So if the vehicle isn't locked, if the, the, the tractor isn't attended by a driver, um, or lastly, if a trailer isn't attached to a tractor, um, and then lastly, the, the third bullet point there, commodity exclusions, um, we have complete commodity exclusions and some carriers lead with a commodity exclusion or a warranty on everything, um, which can lead to a lot of uncovered losses and unhappy brokers and insureds, which are, are, of course, as you see underlined in bold, very unpopular, um, with brokers, agents, and insureds. Um, you heard I was a broker for five years and, you know, it, for, for me personally, I can never let a warranty, um, you know, go out on a policy, uh, unless it was explained very, very clearly, um, to the insured and we would always look for alternatives, um, if we couldn't get the warranty removed. So it just depends, um, you know, deductibles, warranties, commodity exclusions, they, they all have a place, um, when crafting said terms and conditions. Um, at one point or another, but, but communication is so key. Um, nobody wants surprise losses, um, the insured doesn't, the broker doesn't, um, so, so it's very, very, very important that we uphold our, our bargain with, uh, with both of those parties as, as underwriters. And then lastly, uh, this is the last slide, as I, I think I'm running out of time here. Um, other resources, um, to contemplate or tap for assistance, um, first we have our broker or our agent, um, what's the quality of their submissions? What's their insured portfolio? Um, we can underwrite our broker, um, almost as much as an account. Um, are they actively engaged with the insured? Again, what is the quality of their submission? Um, am I getting that, that data, um, in that quality, quality application to, to make a determination? Um, claims and, and risk control, and this is talking about on the carrier side, um, I'm in contact on the claims piece with my transportation and logistics claims manager on almost a daily basis. Um, claims can tell you so much about your insurance, um, that we just don't know sometimes as underwriters. And, uh, the way I look at, at it is they see things at the ground execution level, um, where we as underwriters just see it sometimes at the, the paper level. Um, so here at Allianz, we get a wonderful internal report. Um, it's called the post-claim observation report, and it gives us details on tough or peculiar losses, and we typically get them on all theft claims. And it gives us an in-depth, uh, you know, description and detail on the loss, um, what theft security program they have or they don't have. Um, so very, very informal. Um, insurance carrier loss control, um, we conduct onsite, uh, terminal security inspections with the survey of questions, um, not just on the location, but we can also look at transit protocols. Um, they help us answer the question, does the insured have a security program and do they have a security culture? And then lastly, um, kind of my lead in to, uh, the CargoNet guys, um, what third-party services are they engaging for, for cargo security? CargoNet, we have a great relationship with, there's Sensatec, there's 7P, there's so many other ones out there. Um, just, just naming a few of them, but, but generally they make me more comfortable because they can survey a risk, they can help them write those, you know, those procedures and put them in place. Um, so when we do have that high target theft commodity, um, I'm much more, more comfortable. So with that, that's my lead into, to the CargoNet folks. I appreciate your time. Thanks, Tim. Let's see if I can, uh, take control here. Okay. So, uh, just like Tim said, we're going to first start talking about our, uh, 2020 theft trends, and then we'll look a little bit at our most recent theft trends, which we'll cover, uh, Q2. Uh, here's a quick recap of what we saw in 2020. 2020 was, uh, obviously everyone knows a different year than a past, we did see a major increase in theft. It was a little bit different when it came to what were our top categories or top targeted for our categories. As you'll see, uh, Texas was the most targeted theft where in the past, California has always been the state that had top, uh, for the most targeted. Uh, we saw household goods become the number one target as well as, uh, truck stops, which had taken over the spot for, uh, warehouses and distribution centers, which had been there for the last few years. We're going to next take a look at, let's see here, take a look at, uh, theft by quarter. For the first time in several years, like I was saying, we did see an increase in theft year over year. Uh, the data showed that economic stability correlates heavily to cargo theft, and obviously 2020 introduced economic turmoil. Uh, the increase in theft were significant. Uh, 29% year over year and 21% year over year compared to 2018 and 2019. Uh, typically the last half of the year accounts for the majority of reported thefts. However, uh, due to COVID-19 caused a major spike in Q2, 2020, which actually was our highest, uh, up 63% from 2019. Next up, we take a look at our cargo theft by loss value and total value. Uh, both increased from the previous two years. Uh, recorded theft values increased 34% or by 16 million from 2019. And the average loss value per incident also increased over 19% by 27,000 from 2019 to 2020. Uh, the COVID-19 pandemic was a primary driver of this increase due to an increase in theft activity and just targeting of high value goods in general. Uh, we also recorded an increase in fictitious pickup thefts targeting multiple full truckload shipments of alcoholic beverages, energy drinks, nuts, and metals. Next, we'll take a look at the commodities that were most targeted. Oops. Okay. Uh, household goods, like I was mentioning previously, was the top target commodity in 2020. Uh, this would include items such as cleaning slash laundry supplies, toilet paper, paper towels, major appliances, and tools. We all know, uh, about the shortage of paper towels and toilet paper that everyone was going through. And that certainly is a sign for why that would have been targeted. Uh, food and beverage was also a top commodity, uh, typically is, and saw an increase of 14% when compared to 2019 and, uh, 21% when compared to 2018. Uh, it is a note that pharmaceutical and medicals did double reported thefts in 2020. And you see our other category, if curious, this category compromises, I mean, comprises of, uh, tobacco, firearms, and also mixed freight. We'll take a look next at our Carter theft by state. Uh, the top 10 states listed above account for 74% of thefts, of thefts recorded in 2020, which was roughly consistent with the two past previous years. You'll see that Texas did just out, uh, outpace California, uh, by just 10. And that was rounded out our top five with Florida, Illinois, and Georgia. Uh, this does show that theft activity was more intense than previous known trouble spots, but not necessarily more widespread in those new trouble spots. Let's move our, uh, to look at the actual locations where these thefts were, were occurring. Uh, that's a truck stops were the most, were the most common theft location in 2020. Pilferages are very common at truck stops and multiple trailer break-ins can happen during a single timeframe. So the other location consists of residences, terminal yards, and carrier drop lots. This is typically listed as one of the top targeted commodities since it encompasses multiple location types that are too small to list on their own. Uh, thefts at parking lots have also seen an increase of 65% from 2019 to 2020. Uh, pilferages have become common occurrence while drivers are waiting overnight to be unloaded at their destination location. Uh, so that was our recap for our 2020. If we take a look at our second quarter of 2021, you'll see that we did drop within, uh, drop theft decrease, uh, roughly with 30% in April, down 32% in May and decreased of just under 17% in June. And we mostly point to the fact that those 2020 numbers were so high that we're looking at what seems to be just leveling back out to where, to the levels, at least that we were in previous years. If we look at our top state, top five states, these would be the same top five states that were our top targeted ones within 2020. Uh, California did, however, take that number one spot from Texas during the second quarter, but it is followed by the Florida, Illinois, and Georgia. When looking at our, uh, top commodities for the first time in a little while, electronics actually outpaced both household goods and food and beverage for the first time in quite some time. Uh, this probably is based off of some electronic steps that we will, uh, discuss more in the later slides. Oh, so the next, oh, so our next poll that we're actually, we're actually going to bring up a poll before we look at some of our, uh, upcoming theft trends for our Labor Day holiday coming up in a couple of weeks. So the, our poll is going to be is, uh, what is the most targeted commodity over the last five years over the Labor Day weekend? Was it food and beverage, household products, electronics, or apparel and accessories? We'll go ahead and give everyone a minute here to, uh, select what answer they believe. Hopefully you didn't see it when I, uh, clicked one too many times. All right. Looks like the results are in. We've got, uh, 56% say food and beverage, 15% say household products, 21% with electronics. And lastly, apparel and accessories coming in there at 9%. All right. We'll take a look and see what our answer is. Oh, electronics. Electronics was actually the top targeted commodity of the last five years during our Labor Day holiday weekends. Uh, additionally warehouses and distribution centers followed by parking lots would be our top targeted locations. Uh, California, Texas, and Florida are by far the most targeted. Uh, California, Texas, and Florida are by far our top targeted states. And we have a total of just over $7 million that have been stolen over the last five years during that Labor Day weekend. Additionally, everyone be on the lookout. We will be sending out our, uh, annual Labor Day advisory with our tips and best practices as well. Uh, Keith, did you want to touch on some of that? Okay. Unmuted now. So, um, there we go. So the, uh, the opportunity here for the long weekend is, uh, we pick up a load on a, uh, the day before the holiday, a couple of days before the holiday, because drivers don't want to leave home because when they get out on the road and make the delivery, uh, say the day before the long weekend, they're going to be stranded. The opportunity for a backhaul is not going to be there. So they're going to pick up that load. They're going to sit on it. Uh, they're going to take it to their favorite, uh, safe place as they call it, where they've been parking for years, where it's a truck stop, a rest area, uh, a shopping center, or on the side of the frontage road. And that's really going to see the problem. It's, it's a scheduling issue. It's a, you know, a time motion scheduling issue where, you know, what we always stress at Carbonet is, is let's, uh, let's be smart about it. Let's not ship that, uh, that load for a 300 mile trip, you know, the day before a holiday weekend, because it's just going to sit. So, you know, we ship it after the holiday or three or four days before the holiday. That's, uh, that's generally where we see the big problems. Also the bad guys know the bad guys know that's when the loads are going to be sitting out there. Uh, and the drivers, uh, will always say when they report those loads stolen to us, that they went by and checked on it every two or three hours to make sure it was still there. Well, you can steal a trailer, you can pilfer a trailer within a matter of minutes. So, um, that's, that's the one that's the reason we stress so much these, these long weekends for, um, for carbon theft prevention. All right, Keith, got your slides up here right now. Ah, pre-technology back to my day. So great. Good deal. So, um, deregulation was signed in July 1, 1980. And that's really what changed the industry as far as where we are today. So in 1980, when Jimmy Carter signed, uh, the deregulation act, interstate commerce commission was deregulated. That's what really changed our industry and got us to where we are today. Hijacking back then, hijacking was the most common, uh, there was, there was a common term mentioned, not common way of theft, but common term, uh, force intimidation, which is the legal term where I come from, from law enforcement for, um, for hijacking it's force or intimidation. Load boards with the, uh, the load boards that we have now were not used, uh, for trolling for loads to steal back in the day. Uh, you had to sign a Tripoli. So, uh, you had to sign a Tripoli. So either before you picked up the load or after you picked up the load, the driver had to go pick up, go meet with the broker, sign some documentation, uh, and other other things that they had to do too. So a face to face, you know, handshake, the handshake transaction was done. Um, and, uh, the, the, of course we didn't have the internet then to, uh, troll for loads. So, uh, targeted loads back then, back then the high value loads, which was so different. Now televisions, tobacco, firearms, alcoholic beverages, food, clothing, things like that. So we didn't have the laptop computers and we didn't have the computer chips and we didn't have the other, uh, the other types of things that we do now, you know, with, with development of the technology and other items. Uh, we didn't have the e-tailers out there, the, the Amazons and eBays and things like that. So that changed the commodities. As time goes on, the commodities that are targeted have changed too. Um, the, the common tools of the trade and, and they're still around, they're still around, but they're used as much bowl cutters, slow jims, master fleet key set. I don't want to get into what that is. That'll take a lot of time to explain, but you can just Google master fleet key set. Uh, it's, it's, um, it's kind of like a internet based, uh, uh, way to break into a truck. One, one click on the, on the internet, you can buy a key that'll open every frame. Um, high tech areas have not changed and Sal is so good at pointing this out. When he talks about the hotspots, I started to interject earlier when Steve was talking, but I don't want to steal the thunder, but Sal's very good to always point this out. I get tunnel vision. I look at the hotspots on the map and I say, Oh, that's where the hotspots are. I read a report that president Ford had done back in the seventies on car. And the one thing that changed is nothing, nothing changed. The hotspots are still the hotspots, but what Sal is very good to point out is the commodities are what we're looking for in the hotspots. Are they still electronics? They're still electronics. What kind of electronics are they still? So that's very good information that, uh, that we have here at Carbonet on that fencing operations. Um, back in the day, uh, it could have been, uh, just a frontage road discount store, uh, could have been going right to the end user, et cetera, or a local brand discount store. Um, the fencing operations have changed, uh, obviously with technology too. Cargo theft crews were close-knit. They focused mostly on local thefts and they were sold local. So they, because of regulation in the interstate commerce commission, which actually back in the day drove police cars with lights on them, and they carried guns and badges and they pull trucks over and check paperwork. And if the paperwork wasn't right, they put the driver in jail. They don't have that anymore. So the bad guys were afraid to get out on the interstate with a load of stolen goods with a bill of lading that may or may not match up to what they've got, because the chances of getting caught at the scale or on just on a random roadside stop were pretty high back in the day. The late deliveries back then were mostly due to equipment breakdowns, equipment breakdowns, uh, bad operating procedures, you know, whether and deregulation is when the driver shortage started because that's where it really began. The, uh, that's what really began the depression of driver wages with, uh, deregulation, putting most of the union carriers out of business, which, uh, the drivers, uh, the driver's pay suffered tremendously. They can go to post internet Steve. So now we call it supply chain theft, supply chain disruption, fictitious pickup, uh, strategic carbo theft. We have all kinds of cool buzzwords for it, but it's still the same thing. It's carbo theft. People were stealing freight. Load boards have taken the place of insider information where, uh, you know, somebody was getting a payoff, um, back in my day. Um, and, and I, and I, I was around those days, driver would come in and hand the dispatcher a matchbook, uh, with a $20 bill in it for premier, you know, so he would get the best loads the next day. Those are the type of things that I witnessed firsthand. So you can imagine what other types of nefarious acts occurred with a few dollars. So it was insider information back then. Now it's, you can just troll the internet. Um, the internet is taking a place of the rudimentary tools where all I've got to do is steal someone else's information. all I've got to do is steal someone else's identity and go in and pick up that load as we talk about fictitious pickups in the way. Targeted loads now, copper. Copper back then wasn't a high-value commodity. Pharmaceuticals weren't as guarded as they or weren't as valuable as they are now. We didn't have the type of you know Oxycontin, opioids, those type of medications you know blood pressure thinners and those type of things that we do now. We didn't have computers, computer chips, electronics. We didn't have Red Bull, monster energy drinks. We didn't have the high-end bourbons and all those great cool things to steal that we can put on our shelves or take to supply chain diverters as we're talking about my next bullet. E-tailers, metal recyclers, crosstalk operators, supply chain diverters have taken the place of the the legacy fencing operations. In a supply chain diverter, that's a common thing in our industry where people don't realize it that say a driver calls a diverter and they're out there. They're common in the industry. It's just, hey my load turned over and the accountant refused it. The diverter will buy the load and then it'll go through their process. They'll crosstalk it. When they crosstalk it at a public warehouse, it generates a bill of lading. They can now take that bill of lading with that with those goods and they can take them back to a major discount store and sell them based on the date code commodity. It's an unbelievable underworld of how that works. Now, CarbothaCrew's loose-knit folks mostly focus on pilferages. They're not very skilled in what they do. And drivers, obviously, we know they don't lock the back doors of the trailers all the time like they should. Break the seal, pop up the back of the trailer, take some goods and take them over to a local fencing operation. So organized crews originate from a specific geographic location but operate across state lines. And somewhere, sometimes, especially in California with the nut industry, the way that's going now, it could be stolen locally there in the Tulare-Kern and King County area but it could be sold globally. We've got loads of high-end produce nuts being sold overseas in the Middle East. So some spinoff crimes now. We didn't have these back in the day. ComCheck scams, fictitious pickups, strategic pickups, as some call them. Equipment breakdown scams. That's a big one, too. Where, you know, a guy posing as a towing company calls up a carrier over a weekend, says, I've got your truck impounded, that scary word, impounded by the police. And if you want it back, I need a ComCheck. And the carrier's just more than willing to pay the impound fee to give the trailer back and then the carrier finds on Monday morning that the trailer never left their dock. So now a late delivery. Could be from the old equipment breakdown, bad procedures, driver shortages, issues, etc., etc. But what we see a lot at Carbonet, what really, really scares the industry, and there's not much you can do about it, double brokering, co-loading, or it's sometimes just diverted to the intermodal. There's nothing in the contract, typically, where the carrier, a trucker, and a broker that says they can't co-mingle it, they can't double broker it, or they can't take it to the rail. So if you've got a $3,000 load that you're hauling from, say, the middle of the United States to California, and you can put it on a rail for $1,800 and have it delivered, you know, right to the door, why wouldn't you want to do that and make a $1,200 profit? Well, that's great. It's good business by the trucker, but it slows the delivery down by about a week. And that's when the problems start. And if it's time sensitive, or it's a perishable good, it really causes a lot of problems for the industry. So these are the things that I've seen over my career, which started years and years ago, according to Sal, the Charleston was still a hit when I started. But the industry has changed, but it's still people taking freight off of the trailers and then selling the goods. So it's just changed due to the technology and the deregulation. That's all I've got, Steve. Okay, thanks, Keith. Sal, we'll head to your slides now. Okay, great. Thanks, Steve. Thanks, Keith. Let's start off with addressing the elephant in the room. Behind me, you will see a Barry Manilow album. Leave me alone. I'm a big fan of him. Okay. But all seriousness, I'd like to thank the IMUA for the opportunity, and for you folks for joining the call. We're going to start off talking a little bit about route analysis as it relates to cargo theft trends. And I'd like to pose a question, and I think it's a rhetorical question. We all know the answer, right? Can underwriters use data analytics to identify risk? Yes, right? It's been going on for decades. There's nothing new. I think what's different, though, is the data's gotten better, and the technology's gotten better. So it's really taken a turn into a whole other realm of how you can use data for intelligent-led decisions. And Keith pointed it out earlier, we hear all the time, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, cargo theft, California, New Jersey, Texas, et cetera. It's partly true, but how does it correlate? So we're going to start taking a little bit of a deeper dive into some lanes. Another question is, you know, if you can identify risk, are you more informed, right? Can you offer a higher premium, or can you offer a lower premium? In sales, we have a saying, right? Sometimes a loss is a win. What do I mean by that? Well, often, you might find yourselves as an underwriter in a lose-lose situation, right? You raise your premium, you risk losing the opportunity to your competition. If you keep your premium lower and take on high risk, well, now you're vulnerable, right? So the real goal here is to make it a win-win scenario. And how do you do that? Well, you can certainly still raise your premium, but offering concessions, maybe it's a deductible concession, maybe it's a slightly discounted premium, but you could still make it attractive to retain the business and gain the win. So that's a win-win, right? Because you protected yourself a little bit, you put some stop gaps in place requiring best practices. Tim did a great job laying that out earlier. And on the flip side of it, you can look at the lower risk type of insured and opportunities and offer them at a much lower premium, and you can generate more volume that way. So as we go through the next few slides, you know, keep some of these questions in the back of your mind and we'll address them as we go through it. So next slide, first slide. Okay, so what I did was I went into CargoNet's route search tool, and essentially it allows you to put in an origin address and a destination address, and it routes the lane on a map, and it overlays the cargo theft data along that route. There's certainly some bells and whistles. I'm not here to pitch the product to you right now, but more the data. And what I did here was I took a long haul as an example. As Tim astutely pointed out earlier, a longer haul creates more risk. Generally, we have seen long hauls where you're going up to, you know, the northern border states. There's not a lot of theft up there, so it doesn't always correlate that way. But in this example, east coast to west coast, I think it's a good one. So when you look at this slide and you see we're moving from, I think I did Patterson, New Jersey, to, was it Fontana, California? I think it was. And a 3,000 mile plus trip. And if you look on the left on the top here, you'll see it says 747 thefts. This is based over three years on this lane. There have been 747 thefts. The large majority are occurring in three cities. That's the good news. In this example, you can see here, you know, where the theft count in New Jersey is much higher. Okay. And as it moves across the country, it, Steve, did you move the slide or did I? You can go back to the first slide, please. Okay, thanks. So as it moves across the country, you can see it really falls into a hot spot near Chicago. Probably not a shocker for anyone. But I want to use this as an example. This is about 810 miles from New Jersey to Chicago, right? So via truck, it's probably about a 14 hour trip. And if the 14 hours doesn't stick out for you, let me spell it out. Hours of service, right? Now, in this scenario, they've got 11 hours that they can drive. So they're going to run out of their hours of service before they reach this big problem in Chicago. That's a good thing, right? But it doesn't always work that way. I want to say, let's say that it was only 11 hours to Chicago, and their hours of service ran out smack dab in the middle of Chicago. Is that where we want these trucks stopping? You know, I think we know the answer to that. What's the what's nice about it, though, from Chicago out towards Fontana, California, there's sporadic areas of theft, but that's all manageable. The problem when you get into California, and California is a problem, but it's not the entire state, you're not going to stop running trucks in California, right? So the data wants to tell you where those risks are. So you can be more educated when you're underwriting. And then of course, for the transportation industry and the supply chain industry, they can put stopgaps in place to mitigate being a victim in some of these hotspots. You know, um, I think when you look at New Jersey, um, well, Steve, next slide. I just zoomed in on some of the cities for for some of the folks to see. Yeah, so there is kind of the breakout of California. And you can see where that concentration is all around this area. But outside of it, not so much, right? Um, next slide, Steve. And this is where we dig into, you know, into California, in the Romeoville of Chicago, Romeoville area and whatnot, where in these counties, you know, you're seeing that that theft, and you can see quite a bit along the interstate. And that that's kind of why we're seeing these thefts at truck stops, because a lot of the times the truckers are stopping at truck stops that are right off the interstate. Next slide, Steve, please. Okay, and then from New Jersey, you know, there's definitely some activity there. But if you follow that general rule of thumb that everyone talks about, you know, don't stop for the first 200 miles, you're in a good spot, you know, you'll get out of this mess, and you'll have a nice run until you hit through up in think there's some hiccups in Pennsylvania and Ohio, and then into the Chicago area. So we looked at a long haul. And now we'll take a couple peaks at some short hauls. Steve. Next slide, Steve. Thank you. So on this scenario, took a snapshot of Toronto, Canada to Florida. And when you look at this slide, you can you know that it's 640 miles from Toronto to Miami, there are 450 thefts along that route. Some of the common products that are stolen the top targeted on this lane is food and beverage at 82. So that represents about 20% of all the thefts on the route. The second most targeted item is tractors at 68. And then household comes in at 42. So when you look at this lane, you can certainly see there's risks more and more south you get. And I think that makes sense because you've got you've going through, you know, the Atlanta area. And then once you hit cross that Florida border, I mean, you know, no, I think everyone knows, you know, Florida is a hotspot for theft. So you know, what can you do when you're looking at this? How can you write that policy? What do you have to keep in mind? If it's food and beverage, right, moving down south in Toronto, you might want to sharpen that pencil a little bit. So we'll look at the next one. Yep. Thanks, Steve. Looking at, I think it was, was it Memphis or what I go Nashville? It's kind of small for my old eyes. But no, Nashville to Dallas, 640 miles, 450 thefts. And you know, there is a high concentration when you get into the Memphis area. And also in Fort Worth. So in Memphis, there's 115 thefts. And in Fort Worth, there's 254. What's nice about this, you got to put pretty clean run between Memphis and Fort Worth, which gives you plenty of time, you know, to stop and break and and do what you need to do. Next slide, Steve. Next one. No. One more. Perfect. Thank you. Did another short haul, very short, New Jersey to Pennsylvania. There's 172 thefts on this lane. It's 100 miles. There's 172 thefts on this lane in 100 miles. So the main issue on this lane is there's really not much of a break theft is fairly consistent. So it's not high volume thefts. But there's an indication that there is cargo theft crime throughout the duration of the entire trip. And that causes the challenges, right? Do you want that insured to have a covert tracking device on it? If it's high value, do you want it to be a relay or a driver team or security escort? So these are some of the questions you want to be asking yourselves. Here's the nice thing about this. It's 100 miles, okay? They should not be stopping. There's no reason in the world a driver needs to stop for 100 miles, go to the bathroom before you make the pickup, fill your belly before you make the pickup, do what you need to do and drive the two hours before you stop. And that'll see a whole lot of headaches for everyone. Sure, we are looks like I think we are running a little slow on time. So okay. Did we miss that last slide, Steve? You know, it's pretty sensitive. I'm trying to get back. Okay. Okay. So we did Atlanta, Georgia to Houston, Texas. There's 318 thefts in half of them are in Atlanta. It's 792 miles from Atlanta to Houston. And the three top targeted commodities on this lane are household at 57, food and beverage at 33, and electronics at 24. So again, a lot of risk at the point of origin, and the point of destination, but you've got some clean runs in here, where it's a little safer. So your best practices requirements will be centered around pickup and delivery. Right. And before I wrap it up, because I know I'm short on time, I want to just mention, we are in the process of developing a route score. Okay. And right now, the route search tool gives you the ability to do exactly this, what we showed you here, the route score, we've developed an algorithm with our data scientists, and it's actually going to spit out a score 100 being the worst, and be able to tell you and the industry pretender what the risk is before that load moves. Instead of eyeballing it and having to kind of carve it all out like this, I think the score will be a really nice opportunity for the industry to take advantage of those types of tools. But again, thank you, IMUA, and we'll be sticking around for questions after the presentation. Thanks, Sal. Keith, did you want to go over some of these success stories quick before we get to our Q&A? Yeah, sure. I'll do it real quick. I know we're tight on time. I'm ready to go. So first thing we've got up here, you know, I don't need to, you know, review what happened last year, second quarter of last year, when the pandemic hit. It was chaos in the supply chain industry, getting, you know, medical supplies out. This is one that was real important here. This was a shipment that included gloves, masks, respirators, gowns, and some other items that was going to South Florida, and it was stolen. Within 10 minutes of us knowing about it, we tracked down that the company that owned the trailer was a leasing company. Obviously, it was a brokered load, and it was a leasing company. We found out there was a GPS on the trailer. This is one of our customers' loads. We found out the location. We got the lat and long, and it was sitting down in the swamps in Miami, South, you know, South Florida, not even on a road, backed up into, like, some brush and things like that. We notified Miami-Dade Police Department Cargo Theft Task Force unit down there, and they got a Uniform Patrol guy over there within 10 minutes and got the trailer recovered within 10 minutes of actually us finding out about it. So, again, close to half a million dollars worth of product, and this is, you know, right at the beginning of the pandemic when the medical supplies and the like were in such high demand. So, very important on our networking with law enforcement and our relationship with our customers that call us right away when they have a theft, and our team's ability to get into action and get out of the, you know, kind of get out of the box and ask the questions. Is there a GPS unit on it? No. Well, who owns the trailer? Well, it was a leasing company. We called them, and they had a GPS on there in case the trailer was lost or absconded by whoever leased it and got the load recovered within 10 minutes. So, fraud, you know, fraud being a big thing. We had one of our members last year had 14 loads of copper rod, which right now copper is probably, that's probably $400,000 load, stolen in El Paso as a fictitious pickup, stolen by one company. Again, a clue on a Friday afternoon, one company books 14 loads of copper. That should have been a clue, but it got by him and 14 loads of copper disappeared over a weekend. So, given the information, the MC number, the phone number, and those types of things, we put it in our system and we sent it out to our members. One of our members saw the alert and realized that they had just booked with this carrier, or they were getting ready to book with this carrier. They called us and said that this carrier hit on some of their loads on the internet and they wanted to book them. We contacted ICE, HSI agents, and tracked the phone number down that we had to a location in kind of the Southwest suburbs of Chicago, and went to the location, served a search warrant, recovered quite a bit of the copper that was stolen in the prior load, and a lot of items that hadn't even been reported stolen earlier. So, there again, the intelligence that we provide out to our members, and then the feedback that we get from our members calling us and saying, hey, someone just hit on this load from this phone number that you gave us. And then our continuity with law enforcement, getting them involved quickly. They were actually able to go put a sting operation together, get a lot of the old copper back, get some of the new items stolen that were stolen that no one knew about it. So, that's all I've got, Steve. Thanks, Keith. I think we'll probably pass this back to IMUA, and we'll open it up for Q&A, I imagine. Yes, thank you so much, Steve, Keith, Tim, and Sal. As Steve said, now it's time for Q&A. So, you have two ways you can do this. You can type your question in the Q&A box, and then click Submit, and we'll receive your questions, and I see some have already come in. Or, you can raise your hand, and then we'll recall on you. You can open up your mic and ask your question. So, we do have one question from Haley, and it is, how do we get access to the root analysis tool? That CargoNet referred to. So, Sal? Haley, what a great question. Thank you for asking. You'd become a CargoNet member. We do offer some statistics and theft trend analysis, you know, through the open network to share, but for the route analysis, that's a tool that's inclusive of the CargoNet program. It's available to insurance companies, retailers, manufacturers, and transportation companies. All right, thank you. So, become a member. The other question, so we have a question from Reed. How do thieves discover what a truck trailer is hauling prior to stealing it? That's you, Keith. Tim? I'm unmuting myself. So, there's a lot of ways they can figure it out. They can follow it from the point of pickup. They can walk into the truck stop and make a small conversation with the driver. Drivers are the biggest gossipers in the world and will tell you anything you want to know. Hauling, how fast the truck comes, anything and everything you can find out. Or they'll walk to the back of the truck and look on the seal. There's a seal on the back of the trailer. And if the seal has the manufacturer's name on it, of who put the seal on, say it's a load of whatever, dishwashing detergent, the manufacturer put that on there, that's on there. Or it could just be the billboard on the side of the truck that says, you know, the big brand store or whatever. Or they know that, say, this particular carrier coming out of this particular place in San Diego is hauling electronics, and they're going to be hauling it along the I-40 corridor, and they're going to follow the load. So there's not a silver bullet here. There's a lot of different ways they find out. Sometimes they just hit them up on the CB radio and say, hey, what do you got? What are you hauling? And I'm telling you, the driver will tell them. Yeah, and to elaborate on that, surveillance, right? They'll go to the shippers facilities and watch these trucks drive out of these high-value manufacturer's locations, follow it, wait for them to take a nap or go grab a bite to eat and hit it. Good points, Dale. We worked a crew that was from South Florida that was stealing loads out of Carrollton, Georgia, which is copper. And they would follow the truck out of the shipper's location, pull up behind it in a long red light. One of the bad guys would get out of the minivan and he knew it was a minivan that they were driving. And they'd run up behind the trailer and they had a GPS unit in a magnetic box and they would put the magnetic box on the back of the trailer so they didn't have a close tail on the trailer. They could steal it at their convenience along the route. Yeah, and then a lot of the information as we talk about inside theft, whether it's coming from the driver, whether it's coming from the shipper, the receiver, just somebody, quote unquote, inside job. But then as we just talk about it, sometimes they don't even know and it's just purely opportunistic and it's a weak point in the logistical route. Yeah, it's kind of related. One of my favorite stories is, I don't know if Keith that told me or someone from law enforcement, a task force agent had mentioned that they had identified the location and whereabouts of a stolen load. And law enforcement was sitting back on it, doing surveillance, waiting for the criminals to move in, right? Well, the criminals were doing surveillance on law enforcement, surveilling the truck. Law enforcement did surveillance on the criminal. So when first round of law enforcement left, the bad guys moved in and then the second round of law enforcement came in and swept it all up. It's a cat and mouse game. All right, thank you. We have a question from Christina. Is there any link to the uptick and theft losses last year in Texas with the winter storm and freeze last year? You remember where the water and food were in short supply, or was this just a coincidence? So, Keith, if you wanna elaborate, but I would say it's not a coincidence. Often when we see catastrophic events, what has to occur post event is a rebuild. And that means a lot of construction materials and plumbing materials and building materials that are going to be used for construction. And that means a lot of construction materials and plumbing materials and building materials are now gonna be moving their way into that state. Criminals are sophisticated and they know that. But Keith, you know it better than I. Sure, and I'm gonna write that down that you just said that I know better than you. So what we saw in Texas, anytime we see a catastrophic storm like what we're seeing right now in the Northeast Florida and the like, is the big thing coming out of Texas is lumber and shingles. A lot of lumber comes out of the Houston area, shingles all come out of Houston. And as they move out of that area, the bad guys know it, the locals know that that is moving. And with all the big construction and building going on in the Texas area, especially in Houston, spring area of Houston, the building materials is highly targeted and they're shipping them out so fast that the truckers are picking them up, bringing them back to their location, parking them in their lots. The owner operators are picking them up, taking them, parking on the side of the roads. We see so many of them stolen off the frontage road or they actually make it up to Dallas and they wind up at the truck stop on Lancaster Road. The driver gets tied up with some nefarious people. And what happens between the driver and the bad people at the truck stop is one thing, but it's still counted as a building material theft. So anytime you see that catastrophic event somewhere in the United States, we can almost guarantee that building materials in Texas, the middle Texas area are gonna increase. All right, thank you. And I know we're right up to our time, but we do have, I'm just gonna ask two more very quick questions. What are some of the protections or securities that insurers can use to help protect during long hauls? Are there new practices involved or does it solely rely on hiring well-trained drivers, staff to protect the loads? And that question was from Taylor. So, not to monopolize, but Tim did a good job outlining some of the things that they do. There's a lot that can be done, right? Talked about the analytics, that's the proactive piece. Covert tracking devices, driver teams, relays, security escorts. From the insurance perspective, it's creating requirements for their insured that they have to meet these metrics to be able to get your product, to get your policies. So, that's the one way. Insurance has a heavy step in the industry. And I don't know, Tim, if you have anything to add. I mean, there's just a lot of pieces to it. And I think a lot of it's still old school and it is a lot of the things I talk about, just knowing where you're stopping, knowing your route, hiring the good driver. And knowing your commodity and really drilling down into having those procedures in place and training your drivers on it. The culture is number one, and then making sure the culture is with the driver is number two for me. All right, thank you for that. And this is the last one that we'll have time for today. This one's from Myrna. Keith mentioned an example, one example he gave that when there is an alert to the members, one of them called CargoNet will provide the contact info. Who are the insured? Do they need to be members of CargoNet? Sal, do you want that one or do you want me to take it? Go for it. So, and the two examples I gave, they were CargoNet members. And I think that's how they knew to call us so quickly. The problem is, is we've got a lot of people out there that are not CargoNet members that find out about us kind of through the internet or by word of mouth, or they call their insurance company and the insurance company says, well, did you report this to CargoNet? No, we've never heard of CargoNet, whatever the case is. So I guess to sum it up, those that are members of CargoNet know to report it to us within nanoseconds after it happens. And the quicker we know about it, the sooner we know about it, the better opportunity we have to jump into action. So you've got someone that say calls us a week after a theft. There's probably not a lot we can do because it's already been unloaded off the trailer. The load may be split up. The load may be sitting in a legitimate detector shelf somewhere. And there's no serial numbers on boxes of detergent. So it's gonna be a difficult one to recover. So whether you're a member or a non-member, we'll take in your theft. We want you to report it to us. We want the data, we want the intelligence. And if it's actionable intelligence that we feel we can act on, we're gonna get it out to law enforcement right away. We're gonna send it out. But again, if you're not a member of CargoNet, you're not really gonna know that that time is the essence. We do provide a lot of training. We're very interactive with our customers. They call us 24 seven. We jump into action, get out of bed. We get law enforcement professionals out of bed at two in the morning to go out and recover loads for them. And if you're not a member of CargoNet, you're probably not gonna know that those services are available. And I'm sure Sal would be happy to provide his contact information at the end of this so those that are not CargoNet members can join. Of course I would. But I think the challenge is we, as Keith said, anyone can report to us and we'll do our best to help anyone, member or non-member. The challenge is without having any sort of terms and conditions in place, it's difficult for us to really dig in and help you because there's some liability concerns. We have to have that agreement. That's why there's a challenge. But anyone can report a theft to us. What we can do with it is depending on our workload. And that's a good point, Sal, because so many times people wanna call us and get us to engage on a hostage load or a late driver or whatever, and they're not a member. And I always refer back to that, that the first company I have to look out for is my own. I have to look out for our parent company. We don't wanna wind up in any type of civil liability. If we put somebody's brand or business out there and it gets, even though we send it to law enforcement and it may wind up back in the private sector and it winds up in a newspaper somewhere, then a load of ammunition, we just had one, a load of ammunition, a whole truckload of shotgun shells were stolen and it winds up there and we're in that chain of where that information got out. It puts us in a bad position. So the terms and conditions, we've gotta look out for ourselves. All right. Thank you so much. This has been fantastic. Thanks, Tim, Sal, Steve, and Keith. And thanks to our attendees for all of your interesting questions. So are you ready to hear who the most engaged attendee is? All right. We have a drumroll. Perfect. I was going to ask for a drumroll, please. And we're just going to randomly pick from those who ask questions. And our most engaged is Christina Gose. Congratulations, Christina. We'll send an Amazon gift card to you. Thanks also to the rest of our attendees for your interesting questions. And Eileen, thank you for putting the survey in the chat. All the attendees should be able to see the chat right now. If they go to the chat feature and click on that link, your feedback is appreciated. We really want to know what worked well and what we can improve upon and what we should focus on as the next topic for the next webinar. And with that, we're finished. Thank you and have a great rest of your day.

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