Protocol, Protecting Buildings During Construction, hosted by Inland Marine Underwriters Association. I'm Eileen Monreale, Education Training Specialist for IMUA. I want to thank everybody for joining us today. We are in full throttle for the holidays, and I wish you all a healthy, peaceful, and festive holiday season. In the attendee control panel, you will see that you can download a PDF of the presentation under the handouts. There's 125 slides here, but we will move through them and provide a lot of information really quickly. This is a, also on that control panel, is where you will find the question box where we look forward to you sharing your questions with our presenters. They will answer them at the end of today's webinar. To encourage your questions and engagement, IMUA will award a $25 Amazon e-gift card to the most engaged attendee as a token of our appreciation. We all learn better when we're engaged, so please do share your questions. And if that control panel minimizes by default, simply click that orange arrow at the top right and it will bring back the control panel, and you can always go to view on the control panel and uncheck the auto-hide so it stops hiding on you. So switching to my next slide, I am absolutely honored to introduce today's presenters. Allison Walsing is a senior underwriter for Inland Marine at ASCOT working out of the New York City office. She has been with ASCOT for two years and previously spent seven and a half years at AXA Excel where she began her career. Allison holds a degree in finance from Loyola University, Maryland, and a master's in insurance management from Boston University. Clearly a committed student of both business and the insurance industry, she has also earned the CPCU, AMIM, AIS, and CRIS designations, which should be familiar to all of us in the Inland Marine insurance space. Currently residing in Hoboken, New Jersey, Allison enjoys reading, practicing yoga, and spending time with her family. We also are honored to have with us today Raymond Obok, the CEO, is the director of fire service relations for the American Wood Council. Before that, he was the chief building officer for the city of Rockville, Maryland. Ray retired as the assistant fire chief of Baltimore City Fire Department in 2013. He was appointed fire marshal for the Baltimore city in 2008. Obok is the administrator of the construction fire safety coalition. He has served on several building and fire code technical committees. He is an adjunct instructor at the National Fire Academy and has presented at various venues around the U.S. Obok is a graduate of the University of Baltimore School of Law and a licensed attorney. Ray enjoys spending time with his children on the beach in Fenwick Island, Delaware. In his spare time, he also reads and enjoys walking on the beach. So please welcome Allison and Ray. The floor is all yours. Thanks, Eileen. Hi, everyone. Thank you for having me today. So I'm going to walk through fire safety protocols during a builder's risk project from an underwriter's perspective before Ray dives into best practices for fire safety. So okay. So I'm going to start with a poll today. So which of the following is not one of the top three claims in builder's risk? Water damage, windstorm or hail, fire or theft? And you can go ahead and vote. Okay awesome so I see majority is coming in at windstorm or hail and that is correct and I see fire theft is not shortly behind water damage and then of course fire which we'll be speaking about today. So thanks everyone. So like I said the answer was wind storm or hail the top three claim types are theft water damage and fire. So but I am sure with the increase in natural catastrophes over the past few years that windstorm or hail might sneak its way into the top three at some point. So there are several causes of losses in builders risk other than these four that we just touched on. There's an exhaustive amount of possible causes of loss but most commonly we see theft, vandalism, fire, water damage, severe weather including floods, lightning, windstorms, hailstorms, tornadoes, etc. faulty workmanship and explosions. Today we're going to focus on the peril of fire during builders risk projects. Buildings under construction have a higher fire risk than completed property risks. There are several reasons for this. First there are several unprotected structural components during the course of construction. Meaning that some of the building materials that have been installed have yet to be covered or coated by an additional fire rated coating material. During construction these building parts are only fire resistive according to their natural ability and characteristics. There is also several floor and wall openings in the beginning of construction that would allow a fire to spread quickly. These openings should also be marked with cones or signs and protected to ensure that there are no accidents with workers getting caught in an opening or material falling through and hurting someone and causing damage to the building. There are several ignition sources during a builders risk project. Whether that's while the electrical is being installed, there's wiring exposed and that's more susceptible to outside elements than when the electrical is completed and the buildings done. Material and debris from building materials could be laying around the construction site. Hot works being performed such as welding, cutting, grinding and other activities that are a high risk for fire. Lastly fire protection systems such as sprinklers and fire alarm systems are not installed until towards the end of the project leaving the building unprotected for a majority of the project. It is extremely important for contractors to be aware of these fire risks during a project as fire can lead to collapse which would result in a total loss of the project and possible injuries of their workers. So it's important while underwriting a builders risk project that an underwriter reviews the PML. The PML is the probable maximum loss on a project. So the PML is an estimate of the highest potential financial loss due to a single event. AKA it's worst-case scenario that happens from a loss on the job site due to one event. So due to fire spreading quickly and possibly leading to collapse of the building, fire accounts for larger PMLs than other perils such as theft, vandalism, water damage, etc. So as underwriters there are several things to consider and dig into while reviewing a builders risk project. First thing is we can review the construction plans to see if there will be hot works taking place during the project. If the project is taking place during colder months and they will be using temporary heating for workers during construction that should be in the plans. And if the project if they're having some sort of kitchen or space for workers to heat up their lunches or make coffee etc. These could all lead to ignition sources for fire. Understanding exactly what is taking place in the construction site will allow underwriters to better understand their risk. It is most important that we underwrite the general contractor when reviewing builders risk projects. They are the ones who will be on the site every day and leading by example on the type of project they run to sub contractors and owners. It is important that a general contractor have a safety plan in place in case anything goes wrong during the course of construction. It is important that safety is on the forefront of their minds and their workers minds as well. GCs having prior experience in similar projects is very helpful so they're aware of the possible perils and exposures and can manage these risks like they've done in the past successfully on other similar projects. Also good housekeeping is top key in the fire peril department as a as loose debris and a messy workplace can lead to additional ignition sources that are easily preventable. The other thing to look at when underwriting a project is the protective safeguards that will be in place during a project. It is important that there are safety measures such as having fire extinguishing equipment all around the site and specifically where there are possible ignition sources. Also that there are fire hydrants within a close distance to the site. Other measures such as having a night watch guard, a fenced-in site, lighting at all entrance points of the site and video cameras are helpful and will hopefully fend off any arson or can help quickly notify the owner, the GC and the fire department of a fire during off hours. So what are some underwriting tools that we can use when writing a builder's risk project? There is an endorsement that you could put on a policy that ensures protective safeguards are put in place on the project. So it specifically lists which safeguards are to be used on the project and warrants that the insured has to have these safeguards working on the project in order to have coverage on their builder's risk project. Another way to ensure that projects are being protected as much as possible is by sending out loss control during the term on the project. So these loss control experts go out and see the job site and are there to provide recommendations and anything that they see that the GC can do better on the project such as housekeeping or ensuring there's a hotworks guard while hot works being performed, just that there's safety measures in place and that things are running smoothly. This sending out loss control isn't totally meant to just check boxes but it's supposed to be a value add for our insureds to help them and bring experts to the job who can give them recommendations to make sure all safety protocols can be addressed to the best of their ability. So now I'm going to hand it over to Ray and he's going to discuss the best practices for fire safety protocols during construction. Good afternoon, thank you. Actually I'm going to talk about best practices but I'm also going to talk about what's actually required by the code. We're going to talk about the risk and hazards on construction sites, we're going to talk about the codes and standards that govern buildings under construction, we are going to talk about some best practices because they wind up in the code and talk about a comprehensive fire safety plan. NFPA, National Fire Protection Association, does a study every couple years and this is basically the universe of construction site fires about 4,300 while under construction, five civilian deaths a year, 376 million dollars in property loss. I look at construction fire safety in three terms fire department access, water supply, and early notification and I call it the three-legged stool of effective firefighting because you have to have all three. If you have fire department access but you don't have a sufficient water supply, that's not going to get it done. If you have access and water supply but the building's already fully involved so there was no early notification, that's not going to work either. So it's no surprise that construction sites can become an unsafe environment. On the construction sites you have sources of fuel, you have combustible trash, you have building materials, hazmats, that kind of thing. So this was the Hilton Tower under construction in Columbus, Ohio. Type 1 building, non-combustible, it's made out of concrete and steel, right? Nothing to burn there, right? No fuel switches. Well I walked around back and this was around the back. It's a temporary OSB wall from ground floor all the way up. Even concrete building projects have wooden forms, they have vinyl tub kits, they have packing, they have hazmats. There's going to be waste, I mean there's going to be fuel on every construction site regardless of the building type. Okay, you also have a lot of sources of ignition. I'm not going to read them all here, but it's cooking, it goes on the site, cooking, and that kind of stuff, hot work. This was the same building actually in Columbus, Ohio and I was walking here from dinner, I was actually there to give a construction fire safety briefing, it's a Type 1 building, it's in the middle of the night, you're going to see it's bouncing inside of the building. It's right around the corner from that temporary OSB wooden wall and there was no fire watch, there wasn't sufficient lighting. Once in a while he would stop and he would look to see if anything caught fire, which is not sufficient, but that's the kind of things that happened. To my knowledge he was the only one on the job site that I could see and this was well after hours. So, there we go. So these are the causes of construction fires according to the Campbell report. A lot of times people are surprised to know that the majority of fires are start and then you see the other ones, but don't let those percentages fool you. Cooking fires might be the leading cause, but they're minor. They account for 90% of the fire causes, but only 3% of the property loss. Where electrical fires and intentionally set fires make up about combined 26% of the fire causes, they do almost 75% of the part responsible for 75% of the property loss. We know they occur more frequently in colder months for obvious reasons, burn barrels and heaters. We know the peak times are between noon and nine, but the majority of the property loss occurs when the fire is between midnight and four, but there's nobody's there to report it and it's usually well on its way. We also know that the property use for construction site fires and new construction are overwhelmingly residential properties or going to go on to be residential properties. So, at least the first poll question, what is the leading cause of fires in buildings under construction? And the choices are arson, heating equipment, electrical distribution and lighting systems, cooking equipment, or torch, burner, or soldering iron. So, I'll give everybody a chance to chime in. So, I guess that's long enough and the majority of you, 38% will be right, it is cooking equipment. Now, these are the model codes of safeguard construction. You have Chapter 33 of the International Fire Code. You have Chapter 16 of NSPA 1. Approximately half the country uses IFC and half the country uses NSPA 1, but the grandfather of all these codes is NSPA 241. That's the standard and it's been around a long time. It's been around since 1933. It's not a particularly long standard. It's only about maybe 40 pages cover to cover, including the appendix, appendices, and even if you use the International Fire Code, the IFC, the IFC references NSPA 241. So, 241 standard is pretty much nationwide, regardless of the fire code that's being used. Now, everybody has responsibilities here, but it starts and ends with the owners. They have a responsibility for a safe work environment. They have a responsibility to come up with a comprehensive fire safety plan. I'm not going to read from all these slides, but I'm going to read from this one because it's important. This is right out of NSPA 241. A fire safety program shall be included in all construction, alteration, or demolition contracts, and it is the right of the owner to administer and enforce this program shall be established even if the building is entirely under the jurisdiction of the contract. So, what's that saying is, while you could, the owner could delegate responsibility, they cannot delegate accountability for it, and it says that a fire safety program should be in all projects, not just big ones. So, technically, they're supposed to have a fire safety plan even if you were doing a tenant fit-out. It wouldn't be as extensive, but you still, and the owner has a designated to be responsible for the prevention program and authorize them to enforce it. The program manager, whoever's designated, has responsibilities. I'm not going to read all these here. You can read them yourself, but one of the big ones is a weekly self-inspection. They're supposed to be aware of what's going on on their projects. The employee has a responsibility to report fire hazards and to observe safety rules and to use their personal protective equipment and that kind of thing. Job sites have visitor, have responsibilities to wear their PPE as well, stay alert, invisible, and that kind of thing. Don't block any fire department access or don't block any hydrants, and the authority having jurisdiction has responsibility, and it's a team effort. Now, earlier, when I was introduced, they said that, you know, I was the fire marshal, the fire official for Baltimore City, and I was, and then I went on to be the chief building official for the city of Rockville, and that's relevant here because the fire prevention bureaus, fire departments, building departments, all have a responsibility in enforcing these codes, and the problem is that because many of these folks, and I've been on both sides of this issue, building inspectors think it's the fire department's responsibility to enforce the fire code. The fire department thinks, oh, well, the fire code is a maintenance code. We don't really inspect buildings until they're done or nearly done, so it's the building department that they're on the job site all the time, and it's not that they're trying to shirk responsibility. It's that they are retreating into their traditional role culture in which they were trained, so in that what I call responsibility gap is where a lot of bad practices happen because both sides are looking to the other side to enforce the provisions, and they're not being enforced, so which code does not safeguard structures under construction, does not? NFPA 241, IBC Chapter 33, IFC Chapter 33, NFPA 1 Chapter 16, or none of the above. Okay, none of the above. Everybody was listening. All those actually safeguard construction. A little lag here on the. There we go. So we're going to take a brief look at fire safety programs and construction site safety plans themselves. So, all of these areas should be addressed in a fire safety program. We're going to talk about each one of these one by one. The only one I'm going to call out here is considered special hazards. Like, for instance, there was a fire last year in Charlotte, North Carolina that actually killed two workers. And they started with a spray foam trailer. And the spray foam trailer had two 55-gallon drums of chemicals that were mixed together to make the spray foam. And they were both flammable. And neither one of them could have been extinguished with water. They needed a special extinguishing agent, which wasn't present. So that would be a special hazard you would have to consider. And you have to have a fire safety plan, a written fire safety plan. There's the code references right there. And in the plan, it should include the organizational structure and responsibilities. It should include name and contact number, because the fire department shouldn't be trying to find this out in the middle of the night if there's a fire. They want arrangements for recording fire safety training, risk assessment, and fire protection engineer reports. Now, this wouldn't be for every construction site. I think it's been much, but it was a complex structure. If it was something that was important to the community, you might want to, you know, require that. Fire safety requirements, you know, and in conjunction with the codes. And it probably should include a fire safety plan. This is important, that same fire I was talking about in Charlotte, North Carolina. The fire was discovered at 855. They don't know exactly when it started, but it was discovered by the employees at 855. Did not notify the fire department until 905. Ten minutes later, which is entirely too late. The fire department did not notify the fire department. until 905. Ten minutes later, which is entirely too long. They tried to fight the fire, but they had no evacuation plan. People didn't start to evacuate until 15 minutes after the fire started and were evacuating up to 30 minutes after the fire had already started. They were carrying ladders out and tools. All this stuff should not be carried. When you evacuate a building, you leave with just yourself. So they had no plan on that fire. You can see the other areas. Smoking should be addressed. Hot work should be addressed. We'll talk about those later. Fire protection provisions, which is really going to be portable extinguishers and sandpipes. And if you are in a wildland urban interface, you might want to make sure that the that's accounting for possible wildfires. So we're going to talk about best practices and code requirements. Site security has taken on a bigger role because there's been more suspicious type of fires. These are the security plans should be based on a security assessment. Now, the way the code reads or did read, depending on what code edition you're on, it says that you don't need a guard service unless the AHJ says you do. You don't need security fencing unless they say you do. LA City reversed that default. They say you need it unless we tell you you don't. And if you have a wooden combustible constructed building that is over 40 feet tall, they both are required by the code right now. The most recent code saying this back in 2020, 2016, the 24 fires was reported in the media as suspicious. And they always seem to put a fence up after the fire. This was a fire in Long Neck, Delaware. The Delaware State Fire Marshal told me that a person, a person came out of that tree line behind that burned building you see right there, went inside and started the fire. They don't know if it was to keep warm, to cook food, to cook drugs, to scrap copper, which is a big thing. But they started a fire and because they got in so easily. And then when I'm there, I see them put up a fence and they have two other garden apartments on either side that aren't fenced. I said to the contractor, you're going to put up a fence around those. And he said, well, they didn't catch fire. Why do I need to put a fence around those? I said, well, do you want them to catch fire? So that's the kind of corporate resistance you get to site safety. Sometimes they think it messes with their site logistics. They don't want to, they don't want to pay extra for fencing. But there are some practical reasons other than construction fire safety, why perimeter security would be good. It would keep from, maintain from lost control, people coming on the site and taking things and that kind of thing. There also have to be separation distances. This is just an example in 241 that says if you have a temporary structure and the exposing wall length is 20 feet or more, you would need to be 30 feet away from the building or construction. And there's 75 percent distance reduction if the temporary structure is sprinklered. And that's about as technical as you're going to get in 241. It's really common sense. It's not hypothetical. Now, housekeeping is a big thing. And, you know, the problem is that construction managers do not get bonuses for keeping a clean job site. They get it for coming in under budget or on time and that kind of thing. And they really want every person on that site swinging hammers or doing work, not so much cleaning. And I want to talk about a fire later. It occurred in my jurisdiction of Rockville when I was there, where there was a bunch of trash and debris left around a heater. People forgot to turn a heater off. It caused a fire that wound up to a $35 million loss responsible for it. So you want to make sure they clear their premises of refuse and process waste daily, that they try to keep the packing materials from accumulating. They remove, you know, the empty dumpsters as soon as they get filled. And then you have proper storage for things like oily rags with airtight lid and those kind of things. Any kind of storage, you want to make sure there's aisles cut through the storage so it's accessible to firefighters. If you have a sprinkler system installed, you want to make sure that the materials don't stack up. We had a hotel being built in Prince George's County, Maryland, when I was the chief building inspector there. And they had the mattresses that were delivered too early and they had them stacked up from floor to ceiling in the basement. And they were blocking the sprinkler heads. They shouldn't have been there to begin with. And we had to have them move it, but they didn't really think much of it at the time. They didn't see the danger in it, but thank God they didn't catch fire. Hot work. There would be some hot work system, an internal system where somebody responsible for monitoring the hot work. That means that they would inspect the area where hot work is going to occur before it occurs. They issue a permit, like an internal permit to the sub who's doing the hot work. And then while hot work is going on, they make sure they have a fire watch and they have a proper size. And that they come back afterwards to make sure that there was no hot spots. And this hot work program, what it does is reinforces accountability. And you could make sure that there's no combustibles within 35 feet, that evacuation paths are clear if something were to happen. The person who's conducting the fire watch has a cell phone or a way to report if anything happens. But it really is about accountability on the job site. Now, the fire watch, this is different from the guard service that would do security. The fire watch is only there to monitor the hot work. They want to watch where that slag goes. They want to make sure that there's nothing that's catching fire. Because the welder or whoever's doing the hot work is concentrating on the work itself. Now, the fire watch can have no other duties and construction managers hate that. They hate people just standing around. So a lot of times, oh, you're a fire watch, but here, go sweep up or go do this. According to the code, they're not supposed to. And they're supposed to stay for at least an hour after the work is completed to make sure there's no hot spots and nothing catches fire. Even longer for torch applied roof systems, up to two hours. Now, one thing that building and fire departments seem to get wrong when it comes to code enforcement on construction sites, is they think that there's no codes that govern it because it's a temporary situation. And remember I told you electric is one of the biggest causes of fire loss. And they think, oh, it's temporary wiring. There's no requirements for that. The NEC doesn't kick in until it gets, you know, final approval. Wrong. The branch circuits have to originate in an approved power outlet or panel board, a single one. All conductors have to be protected with overcurrent devices, breakers. And then you have to support the wires every eight feet for temporary wiring. In NEC, it's actually every eight feet for finished wiring. Extension cords have to be maintained free of damage. And many times you go on a job site and you see an extension cord that's taped up because somebody ran over it or accidentally severed it. They don't want to throw away $80 extension cords, so they splice it. And they're supposed to be removed once they are damaged. There's also temporary lighting should be equipped with guards. They should be equipped with heavy duty electrical cords. They shouldn't be suspended by the electrical cords unless they are designed that way. And insulation is the cable itself. Now, some examples of bad wiring. That picture on the left, that is not an approved panel board. That branch circuit is originating from. They're tapping off of an outlet. On the right, you see wires just hanging from the ceiling and open splices. Splices should happen within conduit or within a junction box. They shouldn't just be left open. And coincidentally enough, I took these pictures on a construction site fire in New Jersey that started because of electrical fault. Now with smoking, you have two thoughts. You either ban it completely or you regulate it and put it in certain areas. I'm more for the regulated because smokers are relentless. They're going to smoke and they're going to do it in areas where they won't get caught. And they're going to take the cigarette butts and put them down shaft spaces, which coincidentally is the same place people stick their trash and stuff. Cooking, that's the leading cause that should be regulated. There should be no open flame cooking. There should be no apaches, no grills. And it should be in an area designated for cooking. You know, there's been a cultural change in the workforce. They want to cook on site. We had problems of some of the workers coming back and off hours and actually living in the unfinished units on the site itself and cooking and that kind of thing. So cooking needs to be regulated. No vehicles should be parked inside the building unless the fire detection systems are on. The fire in Charlotte I talked about, you had a spray foam trailer inside the building. It was right next to an elevator shaft. So when that caught fire, it communicated fire to every floor in the building all at the same time. You should never fuel equipment until the engines completely cooled down. Any kind of discharge should be cut away from combustible materials. There's a fire in Massachusetts where the exhaust from an emergency generator actually set something on fire and wound up burning the roof off of a place. So any kind of spill should be dealt with immediately. With waste materials, I talked about that. It should be removed every night. The construction trailer, I mean, dumpsters should be as far away from the building as possible. Sometimes it's a real challenge when it comes to urban settings because the lot sizes don't allow for enough room to really pull it away as far as you should. Heating equipment. Temporary heaters are supposed to be attended to at all times. They are not usually. People just leave them running and running. If you walk away from it, you're supposed to turn it off. They're supposed to be secured so they can't get knocked over. If they're damaged, they should be removed until rendered safe. Material storage is 30 feet away from the building. A lot of times, like I said, that's not practical. Sometimes they want to store it actually in the building, especially if they build a parking garage. First, they want to put it in the parking garage. But if they do, they need to not impede any sprinkler head and they shouldn't. They should be cut through it so firefighters can have access to it. Now, passive systems, one of the reasons why these fires move so quickly is because passive fire protection, firewalls, doors or not even any kind of walls are not there. So you have an uncompartmentalized structure. So some places play around with the idea that you want to try to get the chipboard on as soon as possible to create those barriers. But there's nothing in the code that actually says you have to. Now, another area where fire departments think they get a mulligan, they get a pass, is in the storage of flammable materials, flammable gases and liquids. They do not. These NFPA standards on how you store flammable combustible liquid, how you deal with LP gas or natural fuel, these all still apply. You don't get a mulligan on these. And right here, this is a picture from another construction fire where you have mineral spirits, highly flammable. They lose the cap. So they take and put a rubber glove and a napkin in as a cap, which really creates like a wick almost. And is it in a combustible liquid storage cabinet? No, it is on a temporary OSB table surrounded by combustible boxes and other materials. So you have to train workers in the storage and handling of dangerous products. There should be signage. It should be kept away from sources of ignition. You want to deal with spills promptly. You want to make sure it's stored properly. And it says liquids may only be used for their intended purpose. What does that mean? Well, a lot of us had uncles and fathers and grandfathers used to clean auto parts with gasoline. In fact, when I was in the fire department, we actually cleaned axe heads with gasoline. Well, that's not the intended purpose of gasoline. You wouldn't put gasoline in a kerosene heater and so forth. Now, garbage chutes. OK, if it is a combustible garbage chute, it has to be located outside the building. OK, there should be a recessed sprinkler head at the top of it supplied by a three quarter inch hose. That would be a fire hose, but it should be a commercial hose, preferably a rubber hose, three quarter inch diameter. There was actually in Fairfax, Virginia, a couple of years ago, there was debris in a combustible garbage chute. A worker put a cigarette down there. So we got smoking at play as well. It caught the garbage chute on fire. It burned up into the building. It was a total loss because the fire moved so quickly because the chipboard wasn't up. And it was all because it didn't have the recessed head. It had the recessed spot for that, but didn't have the head and it wasn't hooked up. Now, for built in fire protection features, as alluded to earlier, you cannot count on firewalls or, you know, combustible structural steel or all max sprinkler system. These don't come in until very late in the game. And even when they do, they won't, they're not turned on for various reasons. There has to be a suitable command post. This is a new provision. And in that command post, there needs to be plans, emergency information, keys for access. And when something happens, person in charge of that construction site needs to respond to that location. And the fire department needs to know where that location is. So when there is an emergency, they actually respond to that command post. And they have everything they need right there. And they're not waiting for it. Also, there is a new provision where if you have any of the job site locked off or requires a key, you are required to have a key box in an accessible and conspicuous location. That happens to be a Knox box. Now, for building exterior access, there has to be access within 150 feet of all exterior walls. There has to be an all-weather driving surface of at least 20 feet of unobstructed width. It doesn't mean 20 feet of width and you park construction vehicles on it. It means 20 feet of unobstructed width, 13 1⁄2 feet of unobstructed height. It has to have turnarounds if you have dead ends of more than 150 feet. You see a lot of times with that picture, you see the curb and gutter in. You put the curb and gutter in early, but they don't usually put the final overlay down until at the end because they don't want their construction vehicles breaking up their brand-new road. There was actually the incident in West Des Moines, Iowa, where they had the setup, but it had crush-and-run on it, and it was Easter weekend. And Friday, the builder asked the fire marshal, hey, can I pull up the crush-and-run because I have concrete trucks here on Monday morning early and we can get started early, get finished early. The fire marshal said yes. It rained all that weekend. Easter Sunday, it rained and a fire took place, and all the fire engines and apparatus were bogged down in mud. For stairs, they have to go up with the building. Now, at IFC, it said just one staircase. It doesn't matter how big the building was. And the fee 241 says half of the total number of stairwells in the finished building have to go up with the building. One of the reasons the construction workers could not be saved and could not self-evacuate is that the building was a quarter mile long. It had one accessible stairwell at the far end of the building from where the construction workers were, and they were on the top floor. So it has to go with the building. As it goes up, it's supposed to be lighted. But that is the code requirement for now. Hydrants have to be accessible. Here you have a roll-off dumpster blocking a hydrant. No fire engine could hook to that hydrant if there was an emergency because of the proximity of the dumpster. Now, standpipes are the most important fire protection system in a building under construction. Because until the sprinkler system goes online and stuff like that, this is the way to convey water to the upper floors in the quickest, most efficient manner. So once a building hits 40 feet in height, it's supposed to have a standpipe in place, hose outlets on each floor, a fire department connection readily accessible and conspicuously marked, and had to have a fire flow of at least 500 gallons per minute per the IFC. In the Charlotte fire, the building was seven stories tall, had no working standpipes. In fact, you can hear on the radio the fire department saying hook those standpipes. You see the firefighters going with their high-rise packs and say there's nothing to hook to. So it's more valuable time wasted. So this is a code requirement, has to go up with the building once the building hits 40 feet in height. Now, about water supply, they don't give real guidance. It just says, you know, water supply has to be available. It doesn't tell you how many gallons a minute it has to flow. It basically just says a suitable water supply. This is the wording in the IFC. this gives you a little bit and it has to do with the distance from the lot lines that the building under construction is if it's 30 to 60 feet it is 500 gallons a minute or the the entire flow of the finished building if it's 60 feet I'm sorry if it's under 30 feet it's entire fire flow 30 to 60 half the fire flow of the finished building or 500 gallons a minute whatever is greater and if it's over 60 feet it's simply 500 gallons a minute is that sufficient this is a local interpretation of the ISC requirement it says it has to be 1,500 gallons a minute at 25 psi so one thing says 500 this local interpretation says 1,500 this was a fire and 40 up a rocket actually closed I-270 down with the main artery into DC and it made CNN news it was 140 unit it literally was about of one line this is the fire where the heater was left on all weekend it had a bunch of debris on this top floor room caught it on fire got into the roof had a dry system a dry spring system in the roof wasn't turned on the chief of that department said he had five of those those aerial master streams going and they were throwing 5,000 gallons a minute 25,000 gallons a minute I don't know how many jurisdictions can generate that much flow but the code says you don't need 500 so you can make your own determination if that's sufficient or not now fire access roads must be within at least blank feet of must have at least five you fire access roads must be at least blank feet of unobstructed width 25 feet 13 and a half feet 30 feet or 20 feet okay I think that's enough time and the answer is 20 feet 20 feet of unobstructed width which actually got a little bit of the majority of the votes here so it's 20 feet of unobstructed width now there's new provisions in 19 edition of the NFP 241 one is electrical service disconnecting means one is a guard service requirement I talked about the command both in the key box requirement and then there's a new type of construction that came into the building code the International Building Code in 2021 edition of the IBC that allows for tall mass timber buildings so they put new provisions when they're under construction now the electrical service this means that all of the print circuits when a job site temporary permanent whatever have to be shut off with one switch so you cannot have multiple power box so this is a firefighter safety issue they're gonna be throwing water they want to make sure the electric is killed so just like in any commercial building that's finished or a residential building is finished one means to disconnect that is a requirement now the guard service requirement I talked about if you have a building you know wood building of more than 40 feet in height it also in IFC says an aggregate square footage of 50,000 square feet or more there has to be a guard service the guard service has to be there when the crews aren't working they don't have to be there 24-7 but they have to be there when there's nobody else there you know off hours that's just the command post is an actual wording that says what has to be it's a command post and the key box requirements so there's fire department access these tall mass timber buildings things made across laminated timber have to have a guard service if it exceeds three stories in height a minimum six foot high security fence around the corner of the building now these are some new provisions in the 2022 edition of NFP 241 okay the they want to require a fire department status board fire protection markings scaffolding assuring it deals with provisions for scaffolding assuring and concrete forms emergency lighting and also for large wood frame construction sites like you would see in podium construction pedestal construction now the status board is in an area to be a whiteboard or computer computer monitor usually at the front of a site that would be where you would have contact phone numbers temporary building conditions that would affect the site or access of you know an update on the fire protection systems what's up or up to up to date what's not these slides keep advancing without me touching them so I'm really trying to keep up with the slides I don't know why they're advancing I'm I'm not advancing them but I'm going way faster than I want to this is the number of exit stairs not less than one half of the required exit stairs for the constructed building and so basically if you have four exit stairs required in the finished building then you would have to have at least two usable stairwells let's say you had five you would round up to six and have three during construction they have a in the appendix of NFP one they have a marking system for special hazards and type of construction and it's supposed to be on the construction site while it is being built it to give the firefighters I'm just going to try and slow your slides down yeah I don't know why they keep advancing because I'm like in the middle of talking about on this one I think I'm going to leave it like that this way I don't think it will advance without you moving it away but we don't want that either yeah those slides from the front side and hopefully it won't advance okay let's see what happens yeah so in this one if you had say an odd number of stairwells you would round up to the next even number so if you had five you would round up to six and you'd be required to have three other than that it's just half the total of the and this is just the marking system to give firefighters a visual cue of what type of building you know construction is present sometimes depending on where where it is in the stage of construction you could have a wooden type 5 building with a brick veneer and it would give the fire department the sense that it was a brick building and here with scavelling shoring and forms just saying that you know what's the what's the forms are pulled and stripped off the concrete they should be moved off the site and for for scaffolding ensuring when you no longer need those they should be removed to their combustible for emergency lighting we get the next one for emergency lighting if you have areas that are shielded from natural light then you present mercy lighting if you don't have the wire run for mercy lighting then every to carry personal lighting a flashlight basically and I type the deal and these are requirements for large wood frame construction sites there should be a guard service now they said or other means excess acceptable so they're talking about as video cameras but the cameras have to be monitored we have a minimum six foot high security fence they have a thing called a fire exposure and now hot work fire watch should remain in place for two hours after the work is complete and the direct the use of direct fired heaters shall be prohibited so you can't have any direct fire heaters and these are new fire safety code provisions for the 2021 edition of the IFC they have a daily fire safety inspection as a self-inspection they have fire watch provisions requirements they have cooking separation requirements they have the site safety requirement which in NFPA is called the fire prevention program the site safety director would be the fire prevention program manager in the NFPA and then they have also new provisions for tall mass timber types now I think the most impactful change is the daily self-inspection now the daily self-inspection requires whoever's in charge to do a 360 on the outside of the building and walk area area construction site every day of the project and and that has to be done until the certificate of occupancy these advances certificate of occupancy is issued and it has to be documented and it has that documentation needs to be made upon request by the fire on request of the fire official and if they're not in the third time the fire official answer this documentation then they can issue a stop work order okay this really holds the safety director accountable for not only seeing these conditions but rectifying them and documenting them and I think that a lot of times it is just something that simple so they want to walk the hot work areas temporary heating we talked about make sure the trash and debris are removed ensure temporary wiring is proper there's no exposed conductors flammable liquids are being stored and approved locations and used properly you know that the fires hydrants are obstructed and clearly visible you want to make sure that the access is free from obstructions the short standpipes are in service and they go up with the building that kind of thing and the construction fire safety coalition we actually developed a daily fire safety inspection app that's the code requirement right to the right of it there's the QR code if you wanted to click on it it's a free app it's either iPhone or Android and basically it is a checklist that is on your phone so you basically that's the home page and it gives you instructions on how to use it so you would click on start a new checklist and you would put your product the project details in there you know the name of the project and the address and then you would hit next and it would go through and tell you well ask you a series of questions you know and like for instance this one has ten sections it covers everything we've talked about very quickly it's how we're being performed yes who's the contractor have they been instructed on you know the chapter 35 of the International Fire Code and where is that work being done and and what happens is at the end of every section it'll be depending how you answer the questions it'll come up as compliant or non-compliant and you and the really good thing about this app is is that the date populates itself so if I'm the fire official and I say hey I'm gonna be on your job site Friday and I want to see all of the daily self inspection reports for the last two weeks the person can't go in and pencil whip the dates on this the date is this populated is the date that you are filling it out and there's no way to change it or at least no easy way to change it so you go through see combustible debris and rubbish and waste these are all directly out of the IFC and 241 there's a you know the section on temporary wiring there's a section on flammable liquids you know yes no not applicable that kind of thing fire department access and like I said if you have that's all you need to do is press all these buttons it also will not let you finish the form until you have addressed every question and there's cues depending how you address the questions if fire department connections you have standpipes portable fire extinguishers that's the last section so then the person would sign it you know who conducted the inspection type and who conducted it sign it and then when you click finish it creates a report and you can see the green sections to the right say compliant so that means that everything is good in that area and you basically are signing off on it now once this report is created you can email it to any person you could save it to a digital file it's a PDF form you could print it out and put it in a folder put it whatever you decide to do with it but it's easily stored either on your phone and a computer in an email or a hard copy in a file so there's fire watch requirements and that's what I told you about 40 feet higher or 50,000 square feet you have to have a guard service fire watch now this guard service can have other duties you know security the code only says they have to have a way to report the fire now you know in the plan you're supposed to have emergency notification requirements or or a plan and we think oh everybody knows the dial 9-1-1 who doesn't know that well like I said there's a cultural change in the workforce a lot of the folks who work on construction sites come from places that you don't call the government when you have a problem you know you take care of it yourself there was a fire in New Jersey where there was unpermitted hot work being done in a wall cavity and the workers heard crackling so did they call 9-1-1 no they went to lunch when they got back from lunch they smelled smoke did they call 9-1-1 no they called their boss they had called them three times to get a hold of them by the time they got a hold of them the fire had already burned in an interstitial space through a sprinkler pipe which set off the water flow alarm and that's how the fire department was notified but by the time they were notified the building was was a lost cause so we can't always assume people know to call 9-1-1 there was a fire in College Park where it was a shaft space and somebody put a cigarette down a shaft space caught the thing on fire and the state fire marshal told me they found 12 expended extinguishers at the point of origin so that showed me they tried to fight it with extinguishers before they called the fire department and by the time the fire department got there it was already lost this requirement includes they have to be trained on fire reporting fire extinguishers that's have a note means of notifying the fire department and to keep a log of their patrols because they don't patrol what good are they the fire in Rockville where it burned and burned to burn they had of course Gertz Guard Service didn't patrol and it was a big project it was far away from where the guard shack was and so the Guard Service isn't really effective if it doesn't patrol I've seen job sites where they have barcodes and barcodes on the wall and they make the person go around and scan the barcode with their phone so they know there's a cook incineration requirement has to be at least 10 feet from combustible materials preferably outside the building but if it's inside then that has to be regulated and it has to be signage now now this is a really important part the site safety plan or the fire prevention program in the I am submitted prior to the issuance of the building permit so this means they have to submit the plan and give it a primitive fire department before they can get a building permit and that's a big deal because before it said prior to construction which meant they could get their building but they could start building but they supposed to get before they started building once they have that build permit in hand they start putting shovels in the dirt it is hard to get anything out of a builder so you need to have this you know hold that building permit over their heads prior to the you know they get that plan and the fire department's hands and and make them do it and take it seriously in North Carolina yeah that big loss in Charlotte I told you about unfortunately they amended this part of the code to take it back to where it was before prior to construction so you can get a building permit without a safety plan but you're supposed to on the honor system not start building until you give the plans of the fire department and that's unfortunate and these are the things that the safety plan needs to include and I talked about these with NFP 241 it's almost identical and it's all the things that we've talked about and the plan is a living document it's not just a plan that you put and sit on because the building project is going to change us is the construction changes you're gonna be finishing up places there's gonna be maybe phased occupancy I mean I haven't seen one apartment building or a hotel built where they could you take it back please things kill me I haven't seen one one apartment building or one hotel that waited till every single unit was complete before they started renting them out they wanted to do them you know either a couple floors at a time or a floor at a time so you're talking about phased occupancy we're talking about making the areas under construction safe for the people that are living adjacent to this the construction and there's ways to do that now there's a site safety director training requirement but very vague it says qualifications have to be specific abilities they don't name any specific training they don't name any specific background it's based ever the jurisdiction says is makes a person qualified could it be taking a class like this this whole class is usually 90 minutes to two hours obviously cramming in and a lot faster time than that I they have certain inspector certifications in every state it's whatever the authority having jurisdiction will accept as qualified training and these are the duties of the safety director or fire prevention program person and then you can see in the bottom it's maintain all required records so they want to make sure they have all the hot work permit records all their self inspections and blah blah blah so come quickly and what is predictable is preventable I actually track these larger construction site fires all over the country I visit when I can I thought the first responders and I can tell you that every one of these fires have been predictable and if it's predictable it's preventable I haven't seen one construction fire where I scratched my head and said man I don't know how they could have avoided that you know maybe if it was a lightning strike but I don't I can't name any any fires that started with lightning strikes on construction sites and to my knowledge but but everything else can be avoided because we know what the risk and hazards are and we know that there is firm legal ground to enforce the codes and standards that govern and safeguard construction I talked about some best best practices and we talked about the components of a we should go to a fire safety plan I could do an hour just on a fire safety plan which interesting is and I say this because I know I'm speaking to people largely with an insurance background is in the UK I gave a talk in the UK on construction fire safety and the American approach and we do it a lot differently than they do it there the insurers are the regulators of construction site safety the insurance companies all got together and put a manual together and they say if you want to be insured by any you know builders risk insurance company in the UK you have to follow these this manual and these precautions you have to take and they have their own inspectors that go out and see it the fire department over there the London Fire Brigade they do not have a role in construction fire safety in insurance companies police themselves I thought that was interesting and I actually have a copy of that manual if anybody is interested in the manual and and then we have a website the construction fire safety coalition just use Google construction fire safety will come up there's a lot of template documents there are the model policies and information sharing ability so I would urge if you want to learn more about it to to go check that website out other than that I got I went through this very very quickly actually quicker than I wanted to because there's some technical stuff and I'll turn it back over to the moderator excellent thank you Ray and thank you Alison so we do have some questions here that was a great presentation I apologize about the timing there must be a timer set on some of these slides we do apologize for that technical issue we have a question from Isabel for the NFPA 241 since it's been publicized since it's been published since the 1930s I'm assuming they've updated the versions of it to account for any revisions etc is this easily accessible yes the most recent copy of this recent edition I'm actually on the NFPA 241 committee so it got a little wonky through the 80s where they and where they didn't revise it for several several years but now it's getting heavy scrutiny the original committee I think was 12 people now they have like 38 people on it which I think is a little bit bloated but they're working actually right now on the 2025 edition of the NFPA 241 but the 2022 is the most recent so you can go to NFPA's website you can google NFPA 241 it'll come up now there is a free version online that you can look it's a free version that you have to be on their site to access you can't download it or you can buy by NFPA 241 either a PDF version or a hardcopy but um the we're losing you there am I breaking up yeah you're back now yeah there's a the 2022 edition is the most recent edition and you can get it online for free but you have to look at it through their website where you can buy a copy and download it and it'll be a 2025 edition I'll be out next year because if they account for a lot of the advances in construction and changing landscape of building instruction perfect Alex Hilt asks how it work was breezed over could we expand more on that subject we typically value a hot work HWP as high value that hot work project I guess yeah um I could tell you that some builders have been trying to reduce the amount of hot work so they'll use bolt-on stairs instead of welded stairs they'll use pressure fittings instead of braze fittings where the code allows it or they'll fabricate their stuff off-site and bring it on site there's a minimal amount of hot work some places actually have temporary machine shops that they'll bring on site they do all their hot work in the machine shop what is which is equipped for that I just think if you have a closely monitored program you don't really need to make those precautions you just simply have a fire watch you have somebody that permits it I could always always tell when I was on a well-regulated construction site because if I saw hot work being done as I was walking to the construction trailer I would say to the super you have any hot work being done today and then if they said yeah and they pull out a binder and go yeah it's here they're doing this or doing that then I said okay these guys got under control if you I don't know let me ask around then I'm thinking okay everybody's kind of doing their own thing here so I'm gonna have to look twice as hard at this site but if you have someone that's in charge of the program they go ahead of time where the works gonna be done make sure they clear it free of combustibles there's a fire watch present that is paying attention not on their cell phone not sweeping up and they when they're done they stay that's the hardest thing is to stand there for an hour to make sure no hot spots catch one of the problems we had in Baltimore City was torch applied roof systems because they have the big rolls of rubber that are the roof system and instead of cutting it heating it and then applying it they leave it on the roll they heat it with the torch right where the rubber beats the roof deck which is usually plywood or OSB and then if they catch anything on fire they immediately rolled the rubber right over top of it without knowing it and if it gets any kind of air at all it'll smolder smolder smolder and then we're back at 3 in the morning putting out a roof fire the other thing is for fire watches it's not required by the code but it is thermal imaging camera camera that's better than a naked eye you can see where any hot spots are excellent and we have Catherine asking she would be interested in getting a copy of that manual so does she just contact your email or yes you can make that I think that might be in the slide in the introduction slide so that's how you just request it from directly from right Catherine and Gina asks what is your favorite sprinkler head my favorite sprinkler head well on construction sites and I'm probably telling this to the people that know best they usually don't put they don't turn them on so my favorite is a sprinkler head that actually has water to it but it from a performance point of view probably a frangible bulb sprinkler head is is probably my most reliable sprinkler head more so than a fusible link because they can be set off easier accidentally but the reason that builders they don't turn on the sprinkler system even if it's been fully commissioned or working is because you know there's the worry about the water damage and I think because the the water damage not from flooding claims have been creeping up over the years I think maybe the deductibles are higher so they they're less incentivized to turn these systems on I know that fire in Rockville the dry system wasn't turned on because it was a very very cold winter and they were worried about sprinkler pipes freezing and breaking and because that system hadn't been tied into the fire alarm system they were worried that if a pipe busted that water would keep flowing without anybody knowing it because the sprinkler system isn't tied into the fire alarm and we do tens of thousands of dollars that damage to water damage to the place well wind up being thirty five million dollars in fire damage loss hmm all right we've got about six or seven more questions we've got Isabel what other safety measures that would encourage the contractors etc to more to enforce security measures before a fire as opposed to setting up the fence after a fire well you know there was a fire in what was it down Brooke New Jersey actually shut down down Brooke for a whole day the rail system going in the map hadn't had to be shut down get a cut power to it and it was started by an arsonist and the arsonist was just a flimsy weighted base fence he just pushed it right aside walk right up to the first floor is a there was a concrete podium with wood on top of it worked to the first floor they actually had a scrap room they didn't even have a dumpster yet all their scrap and one of the units that were still under construction so this person all the fuel in the world right there at his disposal lit it on fire and then just pushed his way right out of the place no guard service no you know no decent perimeter security at all luckily the guy was caught in two hours because he was he was he was kind enough to put on Facebook down Brooke light up tonight so the New Jersey Division of Fire Safety call him very quickly but there are some incentives to to perimeter security that go beyond fire safety like let's say you're supposed to have 12 people on the job site or 12 Union carpenters on the job site and you have a badge in and out system then you know you have 12 not 12 that went in the front door and 6 that went out the back door your site logistics are more secure you'll have less property loss the less chance of vandalism or less chance of a fire and from an underrating percent perspective just to ensure that offenses there would be using a protective safeguard endorsement and warranting that there's offense and if there's not and they found out a claim then they would not pay that claim and I don't know what the law is in every state it's actually this is no law that applies in Maryland but other states it's it's a thing called an attractive nuisance it's usually meant about pools and that's why you have to fence around a pool and even if you have a fence around a pool and somebody jumps the fence and drowns in your pool in certain states because it's an attractive nuisance you would still be civilly liable for that well some places think that can strike lights are an attractive nuisance it would attract people and if you don't have a fence and they get in there and get hurt then the builder could or the owner could be civilly liable for that we have a question from Ryan Madsen the current and FBA 241 which includes provisions for tall mass timber building does not seem to define tall would this be for buildings meeting the high-rise definition into 41 other thoughts well he picked up on something that the committee didn't pick up on until this this current code cycle and that's going to be changed I would consider tall well I could tell you in the IBC tall mass timber provisions don't kick in until 80 feet you know basically what a high-rise is because historically regular heavy timber could go as high as 80 feet so anything above that would be considered tall I think that the committee is kicking around the idea of 40 feet because that's what the spring that the standpipe requirement is so he absolutely nailed it they do not defy what tall is and that it's going to be corrected in the next edition of NFPA 241 but I would take it to mean type 4a type 4b or type 4c type of construction as per the IBC excellent good question there Brian we have a question from Dax Studebaker I find that many contractors don't have access to NFPA or a copy of NFPA 241 is there a site or easy free way to get them a copy of just the NFPA 241 the NFPA website like I said you Google NFP 241 it'll send you right to that link it's not a free document I said you can see it online for free but you can't download it unless you pay for it these this is where the pre-construction meetings have to come in a lot of times fire departments are left out of pre-construction meetings and a lot of times building departments never even heard of any NFPA 241 there's more awareness now than ever but this this all should be discussed before you know the building permit is even issued and and and that those avail the availability of that document you know for them to purchase it or to see it online should be communicated to the builder from the authority having jurisdiction I mean they know that codes they have to build by and they seem to have access to those codes you know whether it's a National Electrical Code or the plumbing International Plumbing Code or the International Building Code but they you know seem to have a blind spot in this area we have a question again from Alex Hilt when visiting these sites what organizations do you find contractors be compliant with more often than not and FBA IFC etc the code really is immaterial where they're compliant it's it's the regulators and areas that have strong regulators the village has no choice but to be compliant unless it's within their own corporate you know good governance but you know you have an area like Worcester Massachusetts that has a special section that goes around and just inspects new construction while while construction is going on now a lot of departments don't have that kind of bandwidth because of staffing shortages and the other thing is an administrative hurdle is there's no permit there's no fire safety permit for a construction site so inspections are triggered is either permit driven or complaint driven so I apply for a permit for a fire pump that'll trigger a fire pump inspection but that's usually when the buildings almost done or somebody will complain hey so-and-so has locked exits and then an inspector will go out because construction sites aren't permitted by the fire department and unless somebody complains the fire department may not even know that site is being constructed upon unless they go out and do their own visual inspections because building departments and fire departments sometimes work really well together and sometimes they're very siloed when I was in the Baltimore City Fire Department not only were we not in the same building we weren't even on the same street as the building department so it was a challenge you have a question you mentioned it in a fire safety program there should be a development of a free fire plan with local fire department does this happen for every job or just jobs over a certain threshold there's no trigger in the code for it and in theory every job but you know if John Q public is putting a deck on his house or we want to check his kitchen you know that seems a bit much but I would department the problem with the fire in Charlotte is they had no plan whatsoever basically the first time the Charlotte Fire Department stepped on the site was when the place was already on fire and been burning for several minutes there was a miscommunication it was two stories of cotton and then five stories of wood on top the podium and so when said hey and the fire department for a build so that delayed rescue operations if the plans all hatched out ahead of time then the fire department and the builder on the incident of an emergency I've already indicated together and they would have that they didn't have a standpipe you know there's supposed to and and evacuation was haphazard and that kind of thing you broke up a little there right but I think we definitely idea there for our attendees he's presenting from Tennessee and I think he's got a little little bandwidth yeah my hotel Wi-Fi isn't great I'm actually giving a construction fire safety talk tomorrow pretty much we do have and you'll see it says a QR code to survey we just dropped the survey link into the chat so anybody who really appreciate your feedback mostly what you'd like to see us do next year in addition to so we have another question from Dinesh does the NFPA have regulation on temporary fire alarm equipment such as wireless smoke or heat detectors there is no requirement for that at this point I know that space-age technologies has that exact type of technology that they can either sell builder or rent you can rent from them you have wireless detectors and alarm systems that can be from job to job their Wi-Fi enabled so it can send data to any any person any phone any you know 911 system I think they monitor for something like 16 channels of data heat heat rate arise smoke humidity the whole deal they are not required by the code however if I tell smaller fire departments if you're having a huge project and your fire department does not have the capability of dealing with this place if it caught fire I would I would make them put extra precautions in and one of those precautions early notification would be would be a wireless Wi-Fi enabled alarm system and it wouldn't just 911 or the the fire department or the super message it would also sound horns so when they have to evacuate everybody knows they hear the sound to evacuate problem in Charlotte I'm going to go back to it once again quarter mile long building the workers were at the far end of the building from the stairwell and their evacuation on the fly had the super running up and down the steps yelling in fire fire fire fire fire fire well the inherent and background noise on the site itself you could not hear a quarter mile away to other end of the building and they had no plan for sounding horns outside or anything so those folks didn't even know they were in trouble until it's way too late I think that finishes our questions and we're pretty much on at time but a couple of minutes we always include the IMU a statement the contact information and I'm ready I like I say if anybody wants to contact right I'm pretty sure the information was on introductory slide if not we will make sure we send it out to all of the attendees and thank you so much Allison for adding so much on the underwriting perspective and ready for following it up with your vast expertise and experience from the fire departments and that end of it it's really been fascinating obviously from our attendance and from our participation thank you our attendees have a lot of questions and we look forward to hearing who may be the winner of the $25 Amazon gift card right you want to answer that or want me to I well I'm partial to the person who asked the question what tall and tall mass timber is that was a great catch and I think I was just I think he has two questions Brian Brian Madsen so if you agree Allison sure yeah that's great well congratulations Brian and they're gonna be changing the code and we'll look forward to that maybe right can provide an update on it in 2025 really thank everybody for your their time today and wish you all once again a very happy holiday season stay safe and enjoy and we will see you next year that ends the webinar for today thank you thank you

Inland Marine Underwriters Association

webinar

fire safety

risk management

construction projects

Allison Walsing

Raymond Obok

probable maximum loss

fire safety protocols

NFPA standards

construction site security

insurance professionals